Why are people so convinced this mod hasn't changed?

I don't really get it. Any time I extoll the virtues of Eastern Front in chat, all the trolls descend down and say the mod is horrible with the russians being overpowered. When I ask, they say they played the initial release. When I try to tell them that there have been FOUR patches since then to revamp the balance, they simply say that there's no way anything could have changed enough for the mod to be fun. These assholes are making it almost impossible to tell folks about EF and get them to try it because they respond with a flood of comments about how much EF sucks.

What the f--- is wrong with these people. Do they really expect every free mod to have a totally balanced initial release? And do they not understand what a "patch" is?

Ah, the COH community, bastion of f---ing retards. I don't even know why I try sometimes.

We need to find a way to reel people in outside of the chat channels, because the trolls just shut down any attempts to recommend the mod.

Last edited May 22, 2010 at 3:32 AM by BDNeon

I agree- you made this post, any ideas? Trust me, I tried.

Its typical of the COH community and unfortunately there is nothing we can do about it.

Those in the COH lobby play 'vanila COH' exclusively, meaning they want the retreat and recrew functioning and isn't likely they'd touch it unless they are implemented.

Balance wise, they'll always complain about everything all the time. If you look at .GR or Relic news balance forums there is at least 2 threads for every unit in the game being either OP or UP.  The longest residents of these forums assume themselves to be 'experts' and keep on making the same threads and talking the same shit all the time. Then a really good player comes along...makes a good strat and everyone jumps on the band wagon. Because the strat is successful you start seeing people complaining all over again about different units and how OP/UP they are....unlit they discover a new strat and its the same all over again.

To sum up though, if they're stupid enough not to want to play the mod...its their loss, certainly not ours. We try and show people the benefits of the mod, promote it but will certainly not sit and beg every moron to change his mind and play and mod so he/she could have some fun.

The CoH chat channels are home to some of the biggest retards and losers in the world. I disagree on your opinion of GR though zerstoerer. They generally have a good feel of things and quickly shoot down any rogue posters who make a thread calling the jeep OP etc.

I thought an idea from a while ago was good. Have one of GRs Sunday night fights feature Eastern Front. They've already done so with the Blitzkrieg mod although I have no idea how watched it was. Having a testimonial from a GR expert that EF is fun could also have the mindless sheep start getting it.

Zerstorer, perhaps we could push a GR.org day once 1.10 is released?

GodlikeDennis wrote:
I disagree on your opinion of GR though zerstoerer. They generally have a good feel of things and quickly shoot down any rogue posters who make a thread calling the jeep OP etc.

I thought an idea from a while ago was good. Have one of GRs Sunday night fights feature Eastern Front. They've already done so with the Blitzkrieg mod although I have no idea how watched it was. Having a testimonial from a GR expert that EF is fun could also have the mindless sheep start getting it.

Ok, if you go to the balance forums you'll see the same(and I really do mean the same!) 10 trolls that hug all the threads regardless of who started them. They'll briefly tear into anyone who posts something they disagree with and then turn on each other and start the keyboard fights. And those trolls are not experts, just narrow minded wannabes. 
Those with the expert tags (who are indeed exceptional players and generally come up with strats) don't actually agree with each other on anything.

Anyways, don't get me wrong I tried VERY hard to get the GR community on board from day one and continued to do so despite the general lack of response.
I actually discussed with a 'beta tester' of the Reborn Clan to start making regular broadcasts soon after we started working on the patch. The 4 month delay in releasing it hasn't allowed us to do so. One of the reasons I want to use the reborn clan guys for something similar to the sunday night fights was because they're a respected clan in  GR which means people from GR would be more inclined to watch and perhaps try EF once again.

In the interview with the recent winners of the GR tournament who happen to be a Russians(Guderian and DrHorse,) the following was said,  which I think sums up GR community's attitude towards EF...

Guderian:  There's no USSR in this game, you know
GameReplays.org: Speaking of Russians in CoH, did you try EF?
Guderian: I did. God they made us spammy! The mod was fun, but I haven't played it for a while now
GameReplays.org: Not being able to retreat kinda breaks the whole CoH mechanic.
Guderian: True that, it does bring something new though, which was fun to try
GameReplays.org: I liked the Berlin 4v4 map with the raining fire and burning Reichstag
Guderian: yeah it was nice. I even played against you on it in a game you hosted *sticks out tongue* I was smurfing though
GameReplays.org: That's funny. That's probably the only time I played it! But it's ok, 'cause I smurfed you recently too

Funny thing is, I watched the live broadcast of that game on that particular day, so I know these are genuine comments.
As such, I don't really feel that any push in GR would yield results until the next patch when we've included retreat and vet.

Last edited May 22, 2010 at 10:55 AM by Zerstörer

@BDNeon:
'cause people suck.

I can remember a time when computer games were supposed to just be a fun-experience and not an argument about who's OP and who's not.

Yeah, people suck indeed.

Zerstörer wrote:
Its typical of the COH community and unfortunately there is nothing we can do about it.

Those in the COH lobby play 'vanila COH' exclusively, meaning they want the retreat and recrew functioning and isn't likely they'd touch it unless they are implemented.

Balance wise, they'll always complain about everything all the time. If you look at .GR or Relic news balance forums there is at least 2 threads for every unit in the game being either OP or UP.  The longest residents of these forums assume themselves to be 'experts' and keep on making the same threads and talking the same shit all the time. Then a really good player comes along...makes a good strat and everyone jumps on the band wagon. Because the strat is successful you start seeing people complaining all over again about different units and how OP/UP they are....unlit they discover a new strat and its the same all over again.

To sum up though, if they're stupid enough not to want to play the mod...its their loss, certainly not ours. We try and show people the benefits of the mod, promote it but will certainly not sit and beg every moron to change his mind and play and mod so he/she could have some fun.

Good attitude. It is generally when mods or mod groups grow larger that quality gets lower anyway.

I also read that interview and took note of that. I didn't mean have a SNF with the current version, which isn't different at first glance from release. I don't think it would be possible to ever get GR to play without retreat or vet.

Are you widowmaker1 on GR? So you're kinda the GR community manager for the mod?

I assume you were shot down when you posted the Eastern Front balance topic by these self-proclaimed experts. I wouldn't think these people would be respected at all by anyone and I think I know the ones you are talking about. Reborn clan is a good start but anyone outside of the clan scene might not know of them, instead worshiping the experts with their shiny tags.

I think overall, you're generalising your opinion of GR based on these overbearing individuals.

I'll give you another example just to see their attitude sucks and why I don't see a reason to bother with them any more...

Sepha, a well respected player, expert and advisor....they always boast about the experts recommending stuff to relic but relic never listens blah blah blah. Complaints about why ther isn't a balance patch blah blah blah.
So I've emailed the guy and simply said, can i get a list of the recommendations you gave to relic(simple idea was that we could perhaps in the future accomodate it in EF if there isn't a relic patch to make these twats happy)

His response:
That's not it, individual topics are discussed in the expert forum between experts and relic. If you want to see the topics all you have to do is get the expert badge.

Like some fucking close guarded secret they're afraid someone will take away from them and deny them the glory or something. Simple question and I get a smart ass response like that from the p***k.  Gollum and its precious ring...nuff said...
And with that I'll end my opinion of COH GR community. At least the guys in MW2 and BC2 in GR are fine

Last edited May 22, 2010 at 3:53 PM by Zerstörer

Calm down man, I don't see what the big deal is... The GR forum is very helpful to people who want to learn how to play competitively. The balance section does see quite a bit of flaming, but honestly, that place is pretty much obsolete right now, since relic already has decided on the changelog for the next patch, but no one knows when, if ever, that patch is coming.
And as for the little ammount support from the GR community, its obvious, that the reason is no vet or retreat. Those are core COH gameplay mechanics.

Its not surprising at all, for some retarded reason people are expecting every major mod for this game too redefine "realism" FFS I even mention it in a lesser known site and get more or less same type of response: http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/406-eastern-front-mod/

I think one of the devs said it best when he said "Last time I checked the game in itself had to do with capturing flags and set points and last time I checked they didn't just fight it out in WW2 over some set flags with magically appearing resources."

Couldn't agree more.

Zerstörer wrote:Like some fucking close guarded secret they're afraid someone will take away from them and deny them the glory or something. Simple question and I get a smart ass response like that from the p***k.

Epic censoring there  ::)

True...I've taken a chill pill now as well...I'm cool  ::)

Zerstörer wrote:
True...I've taken a chill pill now as well...I'm cool  ::)

:O Widow is teh devil!! 666 posts!

Damn....I'll start deleting posts see if i can stay on 666  ;D

I like the new mod, not having to stick in the patches all over again is certainly a plus.
I tried seeing if anyone was playing EF on the game replay forum but a general lack of response or basic "it was rubbishy".
in amongst discussions about religion+politics and the usual random spammers.

My personal opinion, if you can't mod yourself then you have no right to complain and bitch about a mod. It's not like you could do it any better yourself.. :)

I'm a programmer, and it pisses me off when people complain about program bugs when they don't know anything about programming; they have no idea that stuff like this is hard work..

I know lets raid the ballence threads for teh lulz

I think the new patch is an improvement.
Not perfect, but an improvement ;)

Can it ever be perfect?
I bet if some people got teleported back in time
and on the front lines of USSR/Nazi Germany would
freak out and go stop stop! Too realistic! Aieee

tobier wrote:
My personal opinion, if you can't mod yourself then you have no right to complain and bitch about a mod. It's not like you could do it any better yourself.. :)

I'm a programmer, and it pisses me off when people complain about program bugs when they don't know anything about programming; they have no idea that stuff like this is hard work..

If you use this as a reason to dismiss any(even unfounded) criticism, then I'm sorry to say, but you are kind of an elitist jerk. Eventhough someone isn't experienced in programming doensn't mean he/she can't figure out if something isn't working as advertised.
Let's have little example: A hockey goalkeeper is only able to block 1 out of 10 shots coming at him, the rest get behind him in to the goal. Even though if you don't even know what iceskates are, isn't it ok to say that the goalkeeper isn't very good? Or is it ok to just dismiss your criticism until you are just as skilled as he is?
I don't mean that you have to just take criticism and do nothing. Just come down from your ivory tower and give reasons why the criticism might be wrong.
Also this doesn't justify baseless cristicism at all.
Don't mean to start a flame war by calling you an elitist jerk, just trying to be helpfull. Don't take it too personally

Vartuoosi wrote:

tobier wrote:
My personal opinion, if you can't mod yourself then you have no right to complain and bitch about a mod. It's not like you could do it any better yourself.. :)

I'm a programmer, and it pisses me off when people complain about program bugs when they don't know anything about programming; they have no idea that stuff like this is hard work..

If you use this as a reason to dismiss any(even unfounded) criticism, then I'm sorry to say, but you are kind of an elitist jerk. Eventhough someone isn't experienced in programming doensn't mean he/she can't figure out if something isn't working as advertised.
Let's have little example: A hockey goalkeeper is only able to block 1 out of 10 shots coming at him, the rest get behind him in to the goal. Even though if you don't even know what iceskates are, isn't it ok to say that the goalkeeper isn't very good? Or is it ok to just dismiss your criticism until you are just as skilled as he is?
I don't mean that you have to just take criticism and do nothing. Just come down from your ivory tower and give reasons why the criticism might be wrong.
Also this doesn't justify baseless cristicism at all.
Don't mean to start a flame war by calling you an elitist jerk, just trying to be helpfull. Don't take it too personally

It's kind of hard not to take it personally, but I'll try not to.

My point is that there are (not just in this mod) tons of people joining forums, find some minor glitch and then write posts like "aww lolzz teh mudz sakks becuz theres glitch lolol". The developers have put down countless hours in making a product that we use for our enjoyment, and they expect nothing in return. I find it lacking in respect that people are complaining way too much. If there is something wrong, post a proper bug report so that the developers can reproduce it and (hopefully) fix it.

To sum up, constructive criticism is always good, random whining and bitching is not.

And about the goalie comparison, if you don't even know what ice skates are then you probably couldn't do a better job at blocking the goal, so what right do you have to bitch at him for being bad? Yes, he is probably bad, but why would you bitch at him for it? Give some constructive criticism instead!

QuoteIt's kind of hard not to take it personally, but I'll try not to.

That was propably kind of redundant thing to say

QuoteTo sum up, constructive criticism is always good, random whining and bitching is not.

This was my point too but I guess I got little carried away and might have misinterpreted your previous post a little.
I just personally hate the "if you don't like it do it better yourself"-argument. It just so lazy type of argument and just as often used to shoot down useless whining as it is used to dismiss critics who have a point.

Vartuoosi wrote:

QuoteIt's kind of hard not to take it personally, but I'll try not to.

That was propably kind of redundant thing to say

QuoteTo sum up, constructive criticism is always good, random whining and bitching is not.

This was my point too but I guess I got little carried away and might have misinterpreted your previous post a little.
I just personally hate the "if you don't like it do it better yourself"-argument. It just so lazy type of argument and just as often used to shoot down useless whining as it is used to dismiss critics who have a point.

Then I guess we agree; I directed my "do it better yourself"-statement to useless whining.

I'm downloading the patch now so I can help with proper bug reporting :)

We have proved that we listen openly to serious criticism and react to well constructed reports on how to improve Eastern Front. We do not, however, listen to unfounded whining because the Soviets aren't a reskinned US faction etc.