Flamethrowers, a new tank deterrent.

I know the idea for flamethrowers being tossed around in the ostheer section but I believe my idea (if taken) should be applied to all factions flamethrowers.

The only usefulness the flamethrowers have been for me is to clear out slit trenches and other small emplacements but nothing more. Historically and in reality, flamethrowers were highly effective against tanks. Turning those steel shelters into ovens with the heat detonating ammunition and fuel as well as killing the crew.

Now the main reason I bring this up is because we have all been in a situation in which someone has rolled into your base with a dozen tanks and all you have is a few at guns and a handful of infantry. Usually at that point it's over unless the attacker is plain stupid. Building AT guns with armor is in your base is useless due to the fact the tanks will take it out before it is even in position and tanks at that point take to long to build and are too expensive. The infantry need a better deterrent against tanks than just panzershreks, panzerfaust, recoiless rifle, etc.

Flamethrowers in general should have their firepower against armor skyrocketed. However, I do see players spamming flamethrowers so to deter this, make them highly vulnerable to infantry as they were in real life. You could even go as far to have the carrier of the flamethrower explode when shot and scorching others around him (I have no clue how hard that would be). This would make it so Tanks wouldn't dominate the field at the end of long games.

Tanks would be compliment with infantry a lot more as well as the fact tanks would be used prudently. Additionally, those using the flamers would not spam them (due to the fact the are highly volatile) and have more infantry protecting their flamers. This could promote the use of infantry in late game (which usually doesn't occur).

This simple change of values (in exception to the exploding flame pack) could change the way players play the game drastically. I really hope that forum at least thinks of the idea.

My two cents
-Nathan

Flamethrowers vs tanks would be about as usefull as a sticky was in real life....aka 'fuck all useful'. Sure you can quote occasions when they destroyed tanks but...its the same as quoting the fact that a single 7.62  AK round was responsible for knocking out an Abrams tank when it went through the engine compartment. Both are true but rare as fuck.

Panzerfausts were the the way germans dealt with armour all too well. And these were far from the pathetic versions depicted in COH so far.

Last edited May 10, 2010 at 5:05 PM by Zerstörer

Aside from all the suggestions, all I'm looking for is an effective deterrent to tanks via the infantry. Something that can promote the use of infantry in late game instead of armor spam.

Fausts could  be used the same way Assault grenades are.All you'd need to do is make sure they don't have the 100% accuracy they have the current versions and bob is your uncle...
But I'm not involving myself in Ostheer design so its what others decide  ;)

Good idea, I'd like a realistic damage to them as well, however as you said pull accuracy away from it so to balance it's effectiveness.

HolyHappiness wrote:
Aside from all the suggestions, all I'm looking for is an effective deterrent to tanks via the infantry. Something that can promote the use of infantry in late game instead of armor spam.

You mean PG spam or Ranger/Airborne + Rifleman spam?

Paciat wrote:

HolyHappiness wrote:
Aside from all the suggestions, all I'm looking for is an effective deterrent to tanks via the infantry. Something that can promote the use of infantry in late game instead of armor spam.

You mean PG spam or Ranger/Airborne + Rifleman spam?

More like a unit that by itself is effective against tanks.

HolyHappiness wrote:
More like a unit that by itself is effective against tanks.

Double shreck infantry?
Or maybe you want a do it all OP unit that is better than Rangers or Airborne with RR?

I agree with you. In fact I had a Great-Grandfather that was in the 21 Shock Army( or that's what I heard). In his journal, he had a part when he was watching so flamers burn a T-34, recalling the someone tried to get out and got shoot almost suddenly. He then said that the tank halted in the middle of driving and he never saw the end because he was retreating. These aren't the exact words because I don't know Russian, but its something like that.

Sadly the Dev's cant affect( or at least doesn't want to) affect the existing fractions so this cant happen.

My Great-Grand Father died somewhere west of Warsaw if you wondered what happen.

Actually, the "Explode when shot" already happens.

Take a closer look at Pioneers or Engineers with flamethrowers next time.

When you kill the Engineer/Pio, the flame pack explodes and leaves flames on the ground, at IT WILL hurt infantry, but only slightly if they arn't suppressed

No, that doesn't count >:(

We don't have time to pause the game and see tiny flames doing 0.001 damage which is the size of a couple pixels

Blitzkrieg flamethrowers do this.
I was very surprised, but, yea, it is logical, very.
Even better : Not much damage from the front, but rear/
sides cooks the engine pronto.

- Now find me a way for the EF people to explain
how soviet flamethrowers can fuck up german engines, but
german Pio flamethrowers can't return the favor?

Oh, across all factions? ;)

Well, then it's no longer 'vanilla' COH ;)

Fail.

I like the idea, myself, though.

Can you be more clear?

Seeme wrote:
Can you be more clear?

He said that blitzkrieg mod implement that, but if will be implemented on soviets/ostheer, the original fractions will have a disadvantage and that can't be solved without modifying original CoH. Contradicting the "spirit" of Eastern Front.

Oh! Thanks. ;D

The flames lasting on the ground last for about 2-5 seconds before becoming scorched flamed ground, only doing minimal damage.

Any damage received to infantry due to this explosion seems small, but I have NOT seen it's greater effects when units are suppressed/pinned.

Playing as the Wehrmacht:

I've had a Engineer squad finished off by their own flamethrower, their mistake.

2 of the men died, 1 with the flamer, and the flamer exploded.

The 3rd, who was seriously injured, crawled out of the arc of the MG who inflicted the wounds. He was lying in a pool of flames from the initial explosion. He did not bother to retreat, as I had a sniper acting as a "Scout" to pick off lone infantry squads. (Hold Fire, Dependent on my command to kill the weaker squads) The Engineer died on his own, and it looks as due to the flame, as shots had stopped after the death of the flamer.

This is just my own testimony, and I think it can make a difference, not a large one, but saves some effort. If that engineer retreated, there could be another flame at the door-step.

He had damned his partner.

Did he have the flame thrower or did it blow up?

Sorry, let me clear this up:

1 Flamer Squad with 1 Regular, The MG ripped them both apart, but the Flamer squad went down first, releasing the explosion that killed the remaining man who was in the regular squad.

New idea based around that concept. If we can't change the flamethrower's power (we would have to change everyone's for balance as others have mentioned) here's a totally new concept that the Ostheer could use.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abwehrflammenwerfer_42

I posted this elsewhere but is more relevant here. It's a flame booby trap, essentially flame mine that could cause multipurpose destruction. This could have it's damage states high without unbalancing the game. But with that being said, it would cost a bit more. Just a thought.

BK flamthrowers are godly :) They give a Flammer to a grenadier squad.
Back to EF, I think the devs should slightly modify the flamthrowers of all factions to do more damage to vehicles(hey no one will notice) (except if they read this post)

Akalonor wrote:
BK flamthrowers are godly :) They give a Flammer to a grenadier squad.
Back to EF, I think the devs should slightly modify the flamthrowers of all factions to do more damage to vehicles(hey no one will notice) (except if they read this post)

hahaha... lol ;D... That reminds me Codename: Panzers, when the heat reaches some level the tank became unusable until it cools off.

ITs always a good feeling when your flamers burn a nice tiger to put the crew in.( CODENAME: Panzers)

All in All, besides the fact that ef dosent want to affect the exsiteing fractions, it would be more work that the devs had to do.

This Mod shouldn't change any of the game mechanics from the original game. Everyone would hate it and stop playing it.

That harsh but I would still play it( as long as it was balenced).

I just think we should leave this alone but I like the mine trap thing. Good thinking

I know that in men of war, shooting a flamethrower or throwing a molotov on a tanks engine will set it on fire, which will burn out the hull/ fuel and even detonate the ammo. I do know that mloltovs were effetive vs tanks, so why noit flamethrowers.

Maybe a Flamethrower *Special* squad that has increased flame damage?
like a Flame Ace.

A unit which is deadly against Infantry, Light Vehicles, Tanks and Buildings, not to mention breaking the existing laws of fire in Company of Heroes? I'm not entirely sure that would be a great idea.

What a fun breaker...

too bad that was the harsh reality of it, get sprayed with napalm and your dead.

This would not work in EF. The game is focused on Offensive, Counter Offensives. Eg, Reactions, and Reactions. There would be no reaction to a unit that has no weaknesses. It breaks the balance of the game.

It's weaknesses are:

Stationary
AND
It's own defense would have to be bad, much like a HalfTrack armor type?

Let's face it, punch a few hundred rounds of MG fire into it and the bullets will ignite it, and once that happens, it ALL dies.

And for tanks? Artillerary? If tanks can get close enough, they can use the *Run in a circle until you kill the enemy* tactic. :/

That's luck of course not skill. What the OP suggests is if a tank trys to "run in circles" it would be destroyed by the flamethrower. It's completely ridiculous, you can't put that in a game and call it stable.

:'( hear that precious, they don't want you in their game, no, no precious, nasty mens don't like the fire machine.

Alot of you are comparing the fire effects from Blitzkrieg and vCoH, but this isn't what you are supposed to be thinking about. So here's something:

Instead of changing the effects or damage of fire, simply create a specialist squad with added abilities related to the soldier that controls the flamethrower.
Blitzkrieg Mod's "Churchill Crocodile" has an ability that tells it to "aim" the flamethrower into a tank's exhaust, in my mind, adding this kind of ability to a specialist flamethrower squad would make that squad unique to rest of the game, and it would not change the original gameplay and/or physics of the flamethrower. It would be an ability, not a feature ;)

As soon as you add a unit that can equally deal with any other unit you have pretty much broken the game.

I swear I said that somewhere before ,Sliver Wolf .....Are you pyschic?

Akalonor wrote:
I swear I said that somewhere before ,Sliver Wolf .....Are you pyschic?

you did suggest a specialist flamethrower squad, but my idea is a bit different nonetheless :P

S1lv3rWolf wrote:

Akalonor wrote:
I swear I said that somewhere before ,Sliver Wolf .....Are you pyschic?

you did suggest a specialist flamethrower squad, but my idea is a bit different nonetheless :P

Giving that ability(fire the flamethrower into a tank's exhaust) for some ammo to damage the motor looks cool :P. Like firing a panzerfaust :P. It doesn't need be a flamer specialist/ace, it could be an upgraded engineer.

Yet you expect an engineer to approach an active/ pinned tank?

Akalonor wrote:
Yet you expect an engineer to approach an active/ pinned tank?

How your "specialist flamethrower squad" will do that? It'll need to come close...

The specialist squad wouldn't have miniscule health  :)
Anyway, made a poll about it check it out in Ostheer suggestions.
Or was it general suggestions?