Suggestion of Soviet units

Ok.My suggestion of units to Red Army:

1.M37 45mm AT http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/M-37_45mm_AT_gun.jpg
2.T-26 Model 1933 http://ww2drawings.jexiste.fr/Files/1-Vehicles/Allies/2-USSR/01-LightTanks/T-26/T-26%281933%29.htm
3.BT 7 Model 1937 http://ww2drawings.jexiste.fr/Files/1-Vehicles/Allies/2-USSR/02-FastTanks/BT/BT-7%28early%29.htm
4.Ba 11 http://ww2drawings.jexiste.fr/Files/1-Vehicles/Allies/2-USSR/09-ArmoredCars/BA/BA-11.htm

Too many light vehicles says I.

This stuff would be alright if we added in an early war campaign.

We already have a BT-7 model, personally I think the BT-7 or/and T-26 could replace the T-70 as a reward unit, BT-7a could replace the T-90. BA-11 doesn't really have something it could replace, plus, it wasn't even near as numerous as the BA-10.

I agree that the BT-7 would be good to replace the T-70, adds a little more in combat ya know?

BurroDiablo wrote:
We already have a BT-7 model, personally I think the BT-7 or/and T-26 could replace the T-70 as a reward unit, BT-7a could replace the T-90.

This actually sounds really nice for me. I guess i've seen this model somewhere, but its long ago, but it did look very nice man. t-26 looks like a toy, since its really a pre-war tank. Its compareable to the first "modern" tank-design out of france..



What role would it actually take?
We dont need a tank taking right the same role.. what i mean to say is that it needs something which differs it from the tank it replaces.. do you got any ideas yet about that?

Last edited April 27, 2010 at 7:46 PM by Venoxxis

T-26 is inferior to T-70 , but I voted for BT-7.

T-26 could be comparable to a damaged engine upgunned Puma. Replacing the T-70... sure, the T-26 is less armoured and slower, but it would be cheaper, could be upgraded with Applique armour and could possibly have a KhT-133 Flamethrower upgrade. T-26 had 53 variations, its a useful tank when you look beyond its speed and armour.

QuoteWhat role would it actually take?
We dont need a tank taking right the same role.. what i mean to say is that it needs something which differs it from the tank it replaces.. do you got any ideas yet about that?

You need to seriously consider balance in that case, its easier to give a replacement tank that is more or less similar in some ways to the Tank it replaces. You have stuff like GWagen and Stug, Hellcat and M10, T-17 and Greyhound... these are more or less the same, but then you have stuff like the Kangaroo and Cromwell which are very different, upsetting balance.

If balance is not equal then COH will be warped into a different dimension, creating black holes in the middle of the map of EVERY game created from then forth, therefore sucking in all buildings and units, exterminating the universe and altering the course of WWII history by far...making aliens the victor, destroying Russia and Germany, and giving the country of Turkey world power, but the black hole would eventually consume the leader, leaving China the last country, and the Aliens pulled out. Thus, Europe is not only devastated but so is every other continent. All of the sudden nukes launch from all countries and collide in the atmosphere to destroy the earth...

Wait...What?

I seriously like the idea. If I could do a Thumbs Up smiley this is where it'd be appropriate.

Wow.....thats deep Cranial, very deep...........

Akalonor wrote:
Wow.....thats deep Cranial, very deep...........

My ramble made absolutely no sense XD

But it got to the point. Balance is not a want. It's a NEED in COH. Or, you know, you can always TRY to unbalance it. You'd probably just end up with the above result. ;D

BurroDiablo wrote:
T-26 could be comparable to a damaged engine upgunned Puma. Replacing the T-70... sure, the T-26 is less armoured and slower, but it would be cheaper, could be upgraded with Applique armour and could possibly have a KhT-133 Flamethrower upgrade. T-26 had 53 variations, its a useful tank when you look beyond its speed and armour.

Additional aromour and especially that flamethrower does sound really nice for me. I've found a picture with both the flamethrower and the add. armour:



In my opinion a early game tank with flamethrowers sounds really very nice. Its compareable to a stuart, it actually forces the german player to build a AT-gun.
But by the time it would be avialable - i mean you need the tankhall first - it would be quite useless since the german would have either paks/schrecks or AT-granandes already. And loosing its mobility compared to the t-70/90 it would get hunted just like a seal on the dry land .. :(

Its a pre-war tank .. these tanks were poorly mobile, but to get it usefull in the soviet union it has to be either a call in or we need some serious changes to make it earlier avialable. I wont name any solution since their are some many but the most wont agree to any of them.

Here i see a true problem of the soviet army which seriously limits their varity and mobility, even if they have the highest varity of units.



For anyone who wants to see the sheer amout of differnet T-26 models:
General variants of the T-26
Self propelled guns based on the T-26

BurroDiablo wrote:
You need to seriously consider balance in that case, its easier to give a replacement tank that is more or less similar in some ways to the Tank it replaces. You have stuff like GWagen and Stug, Hellcat and M10, T-17 and Greyhound... these are more or less the same, but then you have stuff like the Kangaroo and Cromwell which are very different, upsetting balance.

True just true. Even the Gwagen which replaces the stug is a joke. Just comparing their stats: The Stug has 400hp and the Gwagen 375. The Stug does 87.5 damage but the Gwagen 250 xD.

In my opionion its also most important that the tanks are quite compareable talking about their power, but still different how they bring their power on the field.

Last edited April 28, 2010 at 11:14 AM by Venoxxis

This topic keeps coming back time and time again.


To me the best swap units (non doctrinal) would be:

T-90 -> BA-64 (scout car)
Becouse BA-64 is a not a tank it would be build in Tier II.
Finally T-34 or even IS-2 wont be the first Soviet vechicle on the battlefield.

BT-7 -> T-70
Faster but less HP. It can have a 45mm or a 76,2mm stubby gun (low rate of fire or/and accuracy). It would be great for circle strafing PAKs and Marders. I find T-70 is too slow to do that (on rough terain).

SU-85 -> KV-1 (same low accuracy gun as T-34, Churchills armor)
SU-100 -> KV-8 (flame tank similar to British Croc)
KV-1/KV-8 would be slower than T-34, even more expensive than SU-85/SU-100 and would have a flame tank upgrade for 300ammo so a flame wont apear early in the game.


Also T-34 and IS-2 shouldnt be replaced becouse there was no tank worthy to raplace them.
Same goes for US Sherman and Wehrmacht PzIV and Panther.

It seems that the T-26 would be quite pointless due to its poor mobility. Still, as an early war unit for an early war campaign, it would be indispensable... the amount of improvements it could get are numerous... search light (increased range/reveal distance/vision field?), camouflage, improved engine, 75mm recoiless turret... fuck, it would be like playing with Lego XD

Paciat wrote:
T-90 -> BA-64 (scout car)
Becouse BA-64 is a not a tank it would be build in Tier II.
Finally T-34 or even IS-2 wont be the first Soviet vechicle on the battlefield.

BT-7 -> T-70
Faster but less HP. It can have a 45mm or a 76,2mm stubby gun (low rate of fire or/and accuracy). It would be great for circle strafing PAKs and Marders. I find T-70 is too slow to do that (on rough terain).

SU-85 -> KV-1 (same low accuracy gun as T-34, Churchills armor)
SU-100 -> KV-8 (flame tank similar to British Croc)
KV-1/KV-8 would be slower than T-34, even more expensive than SU-85/SU-100 and would have a flame tank upgrade for 300ammo so a flame wont apear early in the game.

Nice summary sounds mostly really well thought paciat. The only thing which actually doesnt fit is the KV-1, because another medium/heavy tank is not needed.

Also the KV-8 had a worse gun, which made it far worse against armour, and a global upgrade therefore wouldnt be that good..

The KV-8 is urban-king.. replacing the KV-2 maybe .. but the SU-122 which is planned actually if im right is the better choise.

BurroDiablo wrote:
It seems that the T-26 would be quite pointless due to its poor mobility. Still, as an early war unit for an early war campaign, it would be indispensable... the amount of improvements it could get are numerous... search light (increased range/reveal distance/vision field?), camouflage, improved engine, 75mm recoiless turret... fuck, it would be like playing with Lego XD

yea    Lego    ;D

But yea, its poor mobility make it quite useless especially ingame.. but in a early war campain i would really enjoy using these strange tanks.. doesnt matter in which lego varity :D

But maybe one of these self-propelled guns may fit in the faction as well..
But actually the most important is that the soviets get a usefull early game vehicle just as paciat pointed out already.

The T-26 would be cool. How muvh would it cost???
maybe:
280 manpower, 35fuel, 5popcap

if SU122 is added it should have same armor as SU85.

also, imo T70 should have BA10 replacement, fast armored car with same 45mm gun and mg, but less armor.

I agree #7

What i think there should be, is a scout vehicle like the American jeep or German motorcycle to be produced in either the red army mustering tent or the support barracks, i think the support barracks suits it more, without one there is no lightly armed and fast scout vehicle, which every faction currently has.

I think that they should do a converted 'Red Army' jeep, with instead of a star on the bonnet there is the hammer and sickle and instead of a cal for a weapon there is a mounted DhsK, so kinda like the British commando jeep you encounter in some of the campaigns

I couldnt find any really good soviet "jeeps" but maybe the T-38 would work. Its a lighter version of the t-40.

As far as I know the speech is the same as the US , so I would never want that.

Clean the 3d model of cannon Pak-38, and do the normal 3d model of ZIS-2. Add the reserved car BA-10. you will change the English howitzer on soviet 152mm ML-20. Clean draftees, or even equate them with the German militiamen. Do the soviet motorized infantry and guardsmen equal to the elite of other factions. Do the upgrade of zenithal machine gun for IS-2, do strengthening of armour grates for T-34. If you need 3d models BA-10, ML-20 and ZIS-2, I can do them, say the amount of grounds only.

QuoteI do not pretend to be a game geek (no offense).

Mate, who are you kidding? You are suggesting ideas on a forum for modification of a historical PC strategy game.  ::)

Besides, the number of individual voice clips we would need to record and implement for each faction number in the tens of thousands. That alone is a HUGE task, but we would also need multiple professional-sounding voice actors, scriptwriters, and expensive equipment and vast expanses of time that none of us have.

WartyX, wiring for a sound not so is important. Better do a few new yunitov and create  a single company. I heard that you already planned it to do. What will it be about?

Sorry, I can't understand what you said at all  :-\

I think he tried to said "It doesn't matter to let the voices as it. It's better to create a few new units instead and a single player campaign. I heard that you already planned to do it. How it would be?"

Sorry, I'm English not strong. I wanted to say that the scoring units is optional. Better Start making new units and fix some of the old.

cannon ZIS-2


howitzer ML-20