For The Motherland! - Whistle

Though it's pretty minor, I'm thinking it would be very neat to hear multiple comissars blowing into whistles as NKVD Conscript squads are being affected by For The Motherland!

The Soviets never used whistles in combat. Although this is not a historical game per se, I'd prefer to keep the 'Enemy at the Gates' references to a minimum.

What would be better is if the squad affected by For the Motherland yelled an "Urrraaa!!" - the sound for this is available all over the place on the internet. In fact, one of the missions in COD: WaW has this very soundbite. I'd prefer this to the whistle :P

thebomb wrote:
The Soviets never used whistles in combat. Although this is not a historical game per se, I'd prefer to keep the 'Enemy at the Gates' references to a minimum.

What would be better is if the squad affected by For the Motherland yelled an "Urrraaa!!" - the sound for this is available all over the place on the internet. In fact, one of the missions in COD: WaW has this very soundbite. I'd prefer this to the whistle :P

Like this? Call of Duty 5 World at War Walkthrough 9 - " Ring of Steel " - Veteran Gameplay HD

This is so epic it needs to be done!!

Yeah that's it. Gives me goosebumps every time I see it.

I think the whistle, though not historically accurate, is what most folks would relate with the soviet charge.

But, all of the conscripts screaming 'Uraaaa!' or 'Za Rodinu!' would have an equal effect. Just some audible confirmation that the ability was used I think would add a lot with the satisfaction of sending Conscripts into the breach.

Just my input.

Ye, that'd be pretty sweet. Perhaps a soundbite for the Katyusha could be "For the Fueher's birthday, a barrage of Katyusha rockets!"
For the Motherland! translated into Russian would be a very good soundbite as well.
But having hundreds of conscripts screaming "UUUUURRRAAA!!!" would be awesome.

"With your Bullets! With your Bayonets! With your BARE, HANDS"

You know, actually, that quote would be cool for the Command Squad's "Fire-Up" Ability. If you can get them to say it in Russian, it'd be BEYOND epic.


"URRRRRRRAAAAAA" Is awesome for conscripts too ;)

thebomb wrote:
The Soviets never used whistles in combat. Although this is not a historical game per se, I'd prefer to keep the 'Enemy at the Gates' references to a minimum.

Company of Heroes plays by rule of cool more than realism. If it is cool for them to use whistles, do it.

And... if the Commissars didn´t use whistles, what did they use?

Saavedra wrote:

thebomb wrote:
The Soviets never used whistles in combat. Although this is not a historical game per se, I'd prefer to keep the 'Enemy at the Gates' references to a minimum.

Company of Heroes plays by rule of cool more than realism. If it is cool for them to use whistles, do it.

And... if the Commissars didn´t use whistles, what did they use?

maybe bullets ;D... the whistle would be cool, i agree with that ::).

Saavedra wrote:
Company of Heroes plays by rule of cool more than realism. If it is cool for them to use whistles, do it.

Sure, whatever.

Quote
And... if the Commissars didn´t use whistles, what did they use?

Flares, signal flags, artillery barrage.

Whistles would be totally awesome!!!

Soundbits like that would be neat,  I want to see what the Devs think about it.

I got goosebumps ;)

"Keep enemy at the gates references to a minimum"?

Hello, do you realize what movie the creators of the mod used as a reference point for making this mod?

Did Relic keep the Saving Private Ryan references to a minimum while making COH? Heck no.

I'm all for a whistle followed by a mass shout of "Urraaaah!"

If you guys want to see the most badass of all soviet charge sequences... this one takes the cake.

Call of Duty Finest Hour - Eastern Front, Mission 1
Fast forward to 8:14

Last edited May 11, 2010 at 3:56 PM by BDNeon

BDNeon wrote:
"Keep enemy at the gates references to a minimum"?

Hello, do you realize what movie the creators of the mod used as a reference point for making this mod?

Did Relic keep the Saving Private Ryan references to a minimum while making COH? Heck no.

I'm all for a whistle followed by a mass shout of "Urraaaah!"

If you guys want to see the most badass of all soviet charge sequences... this one takes the cake.

No, I don't realize what movie the creators used as a reference point for this mod. Please tell me where in CoH: EF it says that the mod is based off a movie reference. Fact is, Enemy at the Gates was a horrible movie and using the movie as a reference for the mod would be an insult to the mod creator's creativity. No one wants to use a bad movie as a reference point for a mod. That's why CoH: EF is not based on Enemy at the Gates but based on the modder's idea of the Eastern Front. That's why CoH: EF is so much more awesome than the movie Enemy at the Gates.

Saving Private Ryan was an awesome movie and so was Band of Brothers. Basing vanilla CoH on those movies is OK I guess - mostly because they weren't movie abortions like Enemy at the Gates.

thebomb wrote:

BDNeon wrote:
"Keep enemy at the gates references to a minimum"?

Hello, do you realize what movie the creators of the mod used as a reference point for making this mod?

Did Relic keep the Saving Private Ryan references to a minimum while making COH? Heck no.

I'm all for a whistle followed by a mass shout of "Urraaaah!"

If you guys want to see the most badass of all soviet charge sequences... this one takes the cake.

No, I don't realize what movie the creators used as a reference point for this mod. Please tell me where in CoH: EF it says that the mod is based off a movie reference. Fact is, Enemy at the Gates was a horrible movie and using the movie as a reference for the mod would be an insult to the mod creator's creativity. No one wants to use a bad movie as a reference point for a mod. That's why CoH: EF is not based on Enemy at the Gates but based on the modder's idea of the Eastern Front. That's why CoH: EF is so much more awesome than the movie Enemy at the Gates.

Saving Private Ryan was an awesome movie and so was Band of Brothers. Basing vanilla CoH on those movies is OK I guess - mostly because they weren't movie abortions like Enemy at the Gates.

In terms of story and directing the movie was an abortion as you said. However, if you take the love story as well as Zaitsev's, it is nearly perfect. Granted the movie revolves around Zaitsev but it is not him we want to copy, it is the surroundings, the procedures, and the way they fought. I quote armchair general's review:

"An early scene in which Soviet reinforcements are being ferried across the Volga under intense Stuka bombardment gives viewers an idea of the hellish introduction to combat endured by so many young soldiers. Likewise, when an NKVD (precursor to the KGB) machine-gun squad opens fire on its own retreating soldiers, the scene is chillingly accurate. These teams, known as blocking detachments, had the principal mission of “motivating” Soviet soldiers to attack regardless of the cost or else die in place in obedience to Stalin’s command. Documents found recently in the former Soviet Union’s archives show that the NKVD executed individually over 13,000 of their own troops at Stalingrad. The number shot during mass attacks such as those depicted in the film likely total many thousands more.........Several scenes do a good job of portraying the skills employed by Soviet snipers: concealment within the rubble of the four massive factories; observation techniques; hiding position selection; and target selection, to name a few. The Soviet Sniper’s Handbook actually lists sniper targets in order of importance. Fascist officers are at the top of the list, followed by artillery observers; machine-gun, artillery and mortar crews; and signalmen – which explains why Zaitsev first shoots the German commander taking a shower then methodically picks off the remainder of the group, and why he later shoots several signalmen but lets the German foot soldier live." http://www.armchairgeneral.com/movies-enemy-at-the-gates.htm

The bashing of the movie arises from the portrayal of the characters and their relationships, not the base on which it was filmed.

HolyHappiness wrote:

In terms of story and directing the movie was an abortion as you said. However, if you take the love story as well as Zaitsev's, it is nearly perfect. Granted the movie revolves around Zaitsev but it is not him we want to copy, it is the surroundings, the procedures, and the way they fought. I quote armchair general's review:

First of all I don't see why this mod has to be based on EatG...or any movie for that matter. The modders did an amazing job creating their own world and vision of the Eastern Front and applying it to the mod in a creative and unique way. Borrowing the feel from EatG just destroys so much creative potential.

Having said that, I wouldn't want to emulate anything in that movie - not the "love story" nor "the surroundings, the procedures, and the way they fought". None of it is worthy of being used to base off an awesome mod like CoH:EF.

Artistically, the movie is one-dimensional. There's so little material to use as a basis for a fictional world in which blocking detachments exist as they are portrayed in the movie. The way the soldiers are loaded like cattle into trains, and then sent to their deaths in a human wave (gunning down anyone who retreated) - the whole scenario sounds like it was thought up in a few minutes by a four year old. Now I know that the mod isn't supposed to be historically accurate but this dream world which EatG conjures up doesn't make for interesting gameplay. In other words, the EatG "feel" is boring.

Regarding your armchair general reference about blocking detachments I suggest you take a look at a real source like post-Soviet internal documents of the FSB. An example is below, which clearly indicates that the way blocking detachments were used in EatG was a complete myth.

..........................

Memorandum by NKVD STF to UOO NKVD of USSR in regards to activities of blocking detachments of Stalingrad and Don Fronts
October 15th 1942.

In accordance with NKO Order # 227 (the infamous "not one step back" order), 193 blocking detachments were formed, among the acting units of the Red Army, as of October 15th 1942. Out of this number, among the units of the Stalingrad Front, there are 16 detachments, among the units of the Don Front there are 25 detachments, all of which are subordinated to Special NKVD sections belonging to the Fronts’ Armies.

Between August 1st and October 15th blocking detachments detained 140,755 soldiers that were suppose to be at the front line. Out of this number: 3,980 were arrested, 1,189 executed, 2,776 sent to penal companies, 185 sent to penal battalions, and 131,094 sent back to their units and distribution points. Most of the arrests and detentions were conducted by the blocking detachments of the Stalingrad and Don Fronts.

Statistic for the Don Front: 36,109 were detained, 736 arrested, 433 executed, 1,056 sent to penal companies, 33 to penal battalions, 32,933 sent back to their units and distribution points.

Statistics for Stalingrad Front: 15,649 were detained, 244 arrested, 278 executed, 218 sent to penal companies, 42 sent to penal battalions, 14,833 sent back to their units and distribution points.

It should be noted that blocking detachments, especially during the heavy fighting at Stalingrad and Don Fronts, did play a positive role in upholding discipline and order in the units and preventing unorganized retreats from defensive positions, and returning a considerable number of servicemen back to their units.

On August 29, Staff of 29 Rifle Division of the 64 Army of the Stalingrad Front was encircled by the enemy tanks that broke through our lines; divisional units lost their leadership and began chaotic retreat. Blocking detachments under Lieutenant of State Security Filatov, who was positioned behind the divisional lines, stopped running units and returned them back to the defenses.

At the different sector of the same division enemy attempt at breakthrough was beaten off by a blocking detachment.

On September 14, enemy attacked units of 399 Rifle Division of the 62 Army that was defending Stalingrad. Personnel of 396 and 472 Rifle Regiments panicked and began retreating, leaving their defensive positions. Commanding Officer of the blocking detachment (junior lieutenant of State Security Elman) ordered his troops to fire above the heads of the retreating units. As a result personnel of these regiments halted and in 2 hours they returned to their positions.

On September 20 enemy took Eastern part of Melekhovskaya. A combined brigade, under the enemy pressure, began an unauthorized retreat to an adjacent position. Blocking detachment of 47th Army rectified the situation. The brigade reoccupied its positions; the blocking detachment, with fire support from the brigade, threw the enemy out of Melekhovskaya.

Blocking detachments, on numerous critical occasions when support was needed to hold the line, were used for direct engagement of the enemy.

On the September the 13th of this year 112 Rifle Division under enemy pressure pulled back form defensive positions. Blocking detachment of the 62nd Army under lieutenant of State Security Hlistov positioned itself at the approaches to an important height. For 4 days blocking detachment personnel were beating off enemy attacks causing grave casualties to the enemy. The blocking detachment was eventually relieved by army reinforcements.

Between September 15 and 16, blocking detachment of the 62nd Army successfully battled a numerically superior foe in the General Area of the Stalingrad Railway Station. Despite its small numbers, the blocking detachment not only was beating off the attacks, but counterattacked as well, inflicting considerable casualties on the enemy. Eventually it was relieved by the units from the 10th Rifle Division.

We also have noted several occasion when blocking detachments were not used as intended. Considerable numbers of these units were used as regular line formations, consequently suffering casualties, that caused them to be pulled back in order to be refit, and as result the blocking service was not ready for front line battle.

..........................

As you can see a real historical source provides a rich pool of ideas to draw from. Blocking detachments did not shoot soldiers as they retreated. Their purpose was multi-dimensional - they kept discipline under intense pressure from the enemy by returning soldiers back to their defensive positions and at times engaged the enemy in a direct confrontation.

I don't know why a lot of people have this hard-on for blocking detachments. Maybe after seeing EatG they thought they were used throughout the entire war (they weren't - 1941-42 only). Maybe they just don't have anything else to draw information from and form a very boring, one-dimensional view of the whole conflict. There's just so much stuff that's way cooler than blocking detachments that can be used to make this mod really stand out. Whistles, and anything that draws from EatG is definitely not it.

thebomb wrote:Maybe they just don't have anything else to draw information from and form a very boring, one-dimensional view of the whole conflict. There's just so much stuff that's way cooler than blocking detachments that can be used to make this mod really stand out. Whistles, and anything that draws from EatG is definitely not it.

One-dimensionality is a part of awesome. Nobody cares about paperwork and realism, certainly not in a Company of Heroes mod. If you want that, you should go play Men of War (except the penal battalion mission).



Also, would it be possible for people to STOP DENYING THE OBVIOUS? This mod CLEARLY draws inspiration from the EaG movie. No, that movie was not realistic. Yes, that movie probably served only as cheap entertainment. This still does NOT mean it was not used in the creation of the mod.

Seriously, does a dev need to come here and state officially that they drew inspiration from that movie? Goddamn! Sniper Ace, conscripts underarmed, the picture on the Urban Warfare doctrine menu...

Last edited May 12, 2010 at 10:04 PM by Saavedra

Question- Why not just ask the Devs ?

EF wouldn't be the first game to draw inspiration from Enemy At the Gates. Anyone who's played the Call of Duty games knows how often they rip stuff straight out of that movie.

Too much words.

Brgg :-\

Call of Duty is a false story with crappy history that it trys to sell off as accurate.
You don't know how many times someone has told me a ridiculous war rumor and used that game as a viable source.

why not simply make the Soviets simply shout "Ouuraaahh!!!" every time they charge a unit? that should satisfy history buffs as well as those looking for a more ambient/immersive experience.  :P

Akalonor wrote:
Call of Duty is a false story with crappy history that it trys to sell off as accurate.

WHEN has a Call of Duty game ever tried to "sell itself as accurate". The main selling point of the Call of Duty franchise has been, for its largest part, to show war in a setting of massive battles, breaking with the tradition of the player being a special operative (Medal of Honor).

It may not be intentional but it is giving false information that people commonly think is true.(I'm not saying you or anyone else but in my expiriances it had been common.)

CoD sells itself as 'cinematic action' and the 'realism' you'd get in films of the sort.
'Medal of honor' and 'Brothers in Arms' are the ones promoting historical accuracy as their main selling point.

CoH was also quoted by its original designers as 'the game that will bring CoD cinematic action to the RTS genre'

Anyone criticizing it like a ww2 simulation has really missed the games main point. Cinematic action/qualities is what you get with coh, hence the quick action and incredible number of small details.

As such the mod, like the rest of the game, draws from a number of inspirations that we feel make it cool and cinematic with historical accuracy becoming secondary consideration.

Akalonor wrote:
It may not be intentional but it is giving false information that people commonly think is true.

You mean that idiots are taking an action videogame for historical fact.

Saavedra wrote:

Akalonor wrote:
It may not be intentional but it is giving false information that people commonly think is true.

You mean that idiots are taking an action videogame for historical fact.

+1 for truth.

Call of Duty is based on something that COULD HAVE happened, or in the case of Modern Warfare, CAN happen.

DID they happen? Nope.

Anyone who believes that video games like stated have an accurate recall of warfare, be it present or past, is most likely mislead.

Saavedra wrote:

Akalonor wrote:
It may not be intentional but it is giving false information that people commonly think is true.

You mean that idiots are taking an action videogame for historical fact.

Exactly, and I have met many idiots on Earth.

I wish idiots were a dieing breed...But we can't have everything, can we?  :'(

As long as people keep dropping out and don't take priority in schooling, we will keep having countless amounts of idiots.

If you want a idiot free place, move to:

China
Japan
South Korea

Problem solved. XD (Pronounced Ex-Dee)

Akalonor wrote:

Saavedra wrote:

Akalonor wrote:
It may not be intentional but it is giving false information that people commonly think is true.

You mean that idiots are taking an action videogame for historical fact.

Exactly, and I have met many idiots on Earth.

+ 1

I say there will be 1 more post before a Dev yells at us for being off topic....

Yeah i think the battle cry or the whistle is a good idea

HUUUURAAAAAAAAAAA !!!!!!

:)