3rd and Probably The Last Version of Ostheer Concept by Ante

Okay, Here is the 3rd and perhaps the last version
The reason I create a new thread instead of update the old one is because this current version has a lot of basic and fundamental change that it won't longer fit with the previous version.

I don't really understand why people don't reply my post, but I guess the text is just too much, so in this version I add Features, so you can at least know what you will see here.

Features
1.) Unique Gameplay
2.) Unique unit, yet can be simply a reskin
3.) Unique Veterancy
4.) Unique way to secure sector
5.) Buildable Tiger I and Doctrinal Tiger Ace (A Possible solution for whether Tiger should buildable or doctrinal)

3rd Ostheer Version

The Gameplay
What is Ostheer Starting Unit?
Base on thread created by UNR3AL, I realize that CoH somehow maintain a unique combination of starting unit. US, Wher, and SU started with weak unit combination while UK and PE start with their core infantry. In order to do the same combination, The Ostheer start with their infantry: Ost-Grenadier.

How about the Resource Management?
Ostheer, like SU, is incapable to secure resource earlier. However, another result from UNR3AL thread, Ostheer capable to secure point in a unique way. After some researches, Ostheer can upgrade the point. This upgradable point however has its own weakness: First, it use ammo that rarer than manpower; Second, the enemy doesn’t need to destroy anything, they only need to seize it twice. But with one Doctrine, it will be harder to seize than to destroy an outpost.

What about the Veterancy?
Ostheer doesn’t really gain veterancy. Instead, they gain area wide bonus. How this implement? Ostheer capables to build tower in every areas. This tower can not be build in area that hasn’t been captured, however the effect last even after seized by enemy. Only one tower can be built in every area and the tower is invisible. Also, the tower doesn’t reveal any invisible unit nearby. The bonus gave by the tower is varied and depend on which base building you built. Each base building unlock new bonus for your troop. Only 1 bonus can be active at once and the bonus is same for every tower.
1.) Infantry Bonus:
• (Pro) Increase Accuracy and damage against enemy infantry
• (Pro) Your infantry will sprint and harder to suppress.
• (Pro) Decrease enemy accuracy against your infantry.
• (Con) Slightly decrease your unit accuracy to enemy vehicle and highly to tank.
• (Con) Decrease recon unit reveal range.
2.) Vehicle Bonus:
• (Pro) Increase Accuracy and damage against enemy vehicle.
• (Pro) Your vehicle upgrade and repaired time will be decreased.
• (Pro) Decrease enemy accuracy against your vehicle.
• (Con) Slightly decrease your unit accuracy to enemy infantry and tank.
• (Con) Decrease repair rate of Builder Halftrack; Ost Grenadier and Ost Panzerjäger Grenadier (Require Last Stand Doctrine) to anything beside vehicle.
3.) Tank Bonus:
• (Pro) Increase accuracy and damage against enemy tank.
• (Pro) Increase armor penetration against enemy vehicle and tank.
• (Pro) Decrease enemy mine and AT damage against your tank within area.
• (Con) Slightly decrease your unit accuracy to enemy vehicle and highly to infantry.
• (Con) Decrease repair rate of Builder Halftrack; Ost Grenadier and Ost Panzerjäger Grenadier (Require Last Stand Doctrine) to anything beside tank.
4.) Superior Bonus
• (Pro) Increase damage against all of enemy unit.
• (Pro) Your unit gain bonus defense.
• (Pro) Increase your unit accuracy to all of enemy unit.
• (Con) Increase enemy accuracy against all of your units.
• (Con) Your Builder Halftrack; Ost Grenadier and Ost Panzerjäger Grenadier (Require Last Stand Doctrine) will repair slower.
5.) No Bonus
• (Pro) No Decreasing stat.
• (Con) No Bonus.

Are they able to upgrade free house?
Yes they are. Like US and Wher, they capable to upgrade free house and make them forward Barrack. The forward barrack will allow you to build Ost Grenadier, MG 34 Team, Mortar Team, and Ost Panzerjäger Grenadier with building they exist as requirement. Unique to Ostheer, once Area Secure Research bought and the area where forward barrack exist secured, the forward barrack is unavailable to be seized. Also, the forward barrack will still available to build unit even though cut off from supply.

How the Gameplay supposes to feel?
Hard hitting early and hard to be pressed at the end game. The Ostheer has some of the fastest unit to capture and seizing. This is balanced by having standard unit and lesser number. However, most of the research and upgrade are easy to gain, thus allow them to have better unit. At end game, because of the lack of real veterancy, their unit will get harder to push forward. But the same reason makes them hard to be pushed. However, the raw power of later unit (such as Jadgpanzer and Tiger I) allow them to do the impossible.

Building, Unit, and Upgrade
There are 4 different buildings that Ostheer can build. The HQ has 3 different upgrades which will unlock 3 different bases. The 4th building only available after all upgrades in HQ purchased.

Ostheer HQ (Not buildable)
This will be the heart of your troop, and by the heart, it really means the heart. This building allows you to build with the Ost Grenadier and Builder Halftrack.

Buildable unit
Ost Grenadier (300 MP 3/4 Pop)
Type: Main Infantry
Role: Assault
Ost Grenadier is a 3 men squad that armed with Kar98k. They can throw grenade and build defenses, also they can be upgraded with:
1.) LMG (MG 34) (75 Ammo)
2.) PzB 35(p) (Require Armor Full Support Upgrade; 75 Ammo)
The defenses they can build:
1.) Barbed Wire
2.) Sandbag
3.) Dragon Teeth
4.) Mine (20 ammo)
5.) Bobby Trap (15 ammo)
6.) Beacon (Require Army Plan Bombardment)
7.) Trenches (Require Army Plan Eastern Blitz)
8.) Tower
9.) Bunker (Require Advance Map Control)
Ability they can do:
1.) Throw Grenade (20 Ammo): Ost Grenadier will throw grenade to enemy. (Incendiary Grenade with Incendiary Element)
2.) Sniper Awareness (On/Off Ability, Require Scharfschützen-Schule Research): (Decrease sniper accuracy against your infantry OR sniper require double shot to kill your infantry) and grant detection range to your infantry, but decrease speed and damage of your unit.
3.) Repair (Require Army Plan Last Stand): Your Ost Grenadier will now repair.
They gain benefit from:
1.) Maximum Squad Size: Add 1 additional man and 1 additional weapon slot.
2.) Incendiary Element: Grant Ost Grenadier Incendiary Grenade.
3.) Scharfschützen-Schule Research: Grant your infantry Sniper Awareness ability

Builder Halftrack (200 MP 3 Pop)
Type: Utility Unit
Role: Build and Repair
Replace the function of original utility unit from any other function. They are too big to build small defenses like mines, but they capable to build base building and big defenses like bunker. 2 things that makes them better than regular utility unit like Pioneer and Engineer: they are tougher (except against AT) and faster. They don’t have any armament however. They can build:
1.) T1 Building
2.) T2 Building
3.) T3 Building
4.) T4 Building
5.) Tower
6.) Bunker (Mortar Bunker with Army Plan Eastern Blitz)
7.) Howitzer (Require Army Plan Bombardment)
Ability they can do:
Repair (Require Army Plan Last Stand): Your Builder Halftrack will now repair. (Advance Repair with Army Plan Last Stand)
They gain benefit from:
1.) Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating: All vehicle and tank now equipped with Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating which decrease mine damage to vehicle and tank.
2.) Advance Engineering: Increase speed and fire range of vehicle and tank.

Buyable Upgrade:
1.) Maximum Squad Size: Increase all squad size. Unlock T1 (200 MP 25 Fuel)
2.) Incendiary Element: Grant some unit Incendiary type of weaponry and Bobby Trap will have Incendiary Effect. Unlock T2 (200 MP 30 Fuel)
3.) Armor Full Support: Unlock T3 (200 MP 25 Fuel)

T1 (220 MP 15 Fuel)
Focus on Counter Infantry and Infantry Support, Unlock Infantry Bonus

Buildable unit
MG 34 (260 MP 4 Pop)
Type: Support Infantry
Role: Anti-Infantry
Equipped with a Tripod MG 34, they get lesser damage and suppression rate. In exchange, they gain longer range. Ability they can do:
Sniper Awareness (On/Off Ability, Require Scharfschützen-Schule Research): (Decrease sniper accuracy against your infantry OR sniper require double shot to kill your infantry) and grant detection range to your infantry, but decrease speed and damage of your unit.
They gain benefit from:
1.) Improved Equipment: Replace MG 34 with MG 34/41 (MG 34S) which has better damage and suppression rate.
2.) Scharfschützen-Schule Research: Grant your infantry Sniper Awareness ability

Zündapp KS750 (180 MP 2 Pop)
Type: Light Vehicle
Role: Recon
Zündapp KS750 is the equivalent of Wehrmacht Motorcycle. They mostly same except that Zündapp KS750 equipped with MG 34 and have more armor. They gain benefit from:
1.) Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating: All vehicle and tank now equipped with Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating which decrease mine damage to vehicle and tank.
2.) Advance Engineering: Increase speed and fire range of vehicle and tank.

Raupenschlepper-Ost Transport Truck (200 MP 15 Fuel 4 Pop)
Type: Light Vehicle
Role: Support Vehicle
Raupenschlepper-Ost (RSO) is a heavily used vehicle in Eastern Front. This vehicle, as it is lighter than most half track, capable to move fast and ignore terrain reduced speed. This vehicle can be upgrade with:
1.) Ammo Truck (75 Ammo): Raupenschlepper-Ost will now have function similar to Ammunition Halftrack in exchange to its transport capability.
2.) Medic Truck (75 Ammo): Raupenschlepper-Ost will now capable to heal nearby infantry in exchange to its transport capability.
Ability they can do:
Unpack/Pack: Increase effect range. (Also 2 medics will be summoned which will collect body, 4 bodies required. The medic will disappear when RSO move)
They gain benefit from:
1.) Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating: All vehicle and tank now equipped with Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating which decrease mine damage to vehicle and tank.
2.) Advance Engineering: Increase speed and fire range of vehicle and tank.

Buyable Research:
1.) Improved Equipment: Replace old equipment with new and better equipment. (200 MP 40 Fuel)
2.) Scharfschützen-Schule: Grant your infantry Sniper Awareness ability (200 MP 25 Fuel)

T2 (220 MP 25 Fuel)
Focus on Counter Mass Troop and Light Armor, Unlock Vehicle Bonus

Buildable Unit:
Mortar Team (270 MP 3 Pop)
Type: Support Infantry
Role: Long Range
Equipped with 5 cm leGrW 36 and consist of 3 men, mortar team shoot in shorter range and deal lesser damage. But they capable to deploy, undeploy, and move faster. Ability they can do:
1.) Mortar Barrage: Barrage on location.
2.) Incendiary Round (50 Ammo): Launch an incendiary round on location.
3.) Smoke Round (Require Veteran Artillerist): Launch a smoke round on location.
4.) Sniper Awareness (On/Off Ability, Require Scharfschützen-Schule Research): (Decrease sniper accuracy against your infantry OR sniper require double shot to kill your infantry) and grant detection range to your infantry, but decrease speed and damage of your unit.
They gain benefit from:
1.) Maximum Squad Size: Add 1 additional man.
2.) Improved Equipment: Replace 5 cm leGrW 36 with kz 8 cm GrW 42 which has better damage and fire range.
3.) Scharfschützen-Schule Research: Grant your infantry Sniper Awareness ability

Flakpanzer 38(t) (410 MP 40 Fuel 8 Pop)
Type: Anti-Air Unit
Role: Anti-Air, Anti-Infantry
Flakpanzer 38(t) initial role is to handle incoming enemy aircraft support. However, due to heavily land base nature of the war, the Flakpanzer 38(t) role becoming more into Anti-Infantry. They gain benefit from:
1.) Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating: All vehicle and tank now equipped with Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating which decrease mine damage to vehicle and tank.
2.) Advance Engineering: Increase speed and fire range of vehicle and tank.

Panzer III (400 MP 55 Fuel 6 Pop)
Type: Medium Tank
Role: Assault
Require: Armor Full Support, 2 building built
Panzer was build to be a tank hunter when fight against Soviet Union. However, when T 34 came out, this tank proved to be incapable to do their job. Thus, at the rest of the war they role became simply as Infantry support. Its role later on replaced by Panzer IV. They gain benefit from:
1.) Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating: All vehicle and tank now equipped with Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating which decrease mine damage to vehicle and tank.
2.) Advance Engineering: Increase speed and fire range of vehicle and tank.

Buyable Research:
1.) Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating: All vehicle and tank now equipped with Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating which decrease mine damage to vehicle and tank. (220 MP 35 Fuel)
2.) Area Secure: You can now upgrade your sector to secure it. (200 MP 15 Fuel)

T3 (220 MP 50 Fuel)
Focus on Counter Enemy Armor, Unlock Tank Bonus

Buildable Unit:
Ost Panzerjäger Grenadier (330 MP 3/4 Pop)
Type: Support Infantry
Role: Anti-Tank Unit
This squad is Ost Grenadier that has been upgraded with PzB 35(p). They are identical in stats and have same ability. They can be upgraded with:
Artillerist (75 Ammo, Require Artillery Element): Allow your Ost Panzerjäger Grenadier to drop Artillery on area.
The defenses they can build:
1.) Barbed Wire
2.) Sandbag
3.) Dragon Teeth
4.) Mine (20 ammo)
5.) Bobby Trap (15 ammo)
6.) Beacon (Require Army Plan Bombardment)
7.) Trenches (Require Army Plan Eastern Blitz)
8.) Tower
9.) Bunker (Require Advance Map Control)
Ability they can do:
1.) Throw Grenade (20 Ammo): Ost Panzerjäger Grenadier will throw grenade to enemy. (Incendiary Grenade with Incendiary Element)
2.) Sniper Awareness (On/Off Ability, Require Scharfschützen-Schule Research): (Decrease sniper accuracy against your infantry OR sniper require double shot to kill your infantry) and grant detection range to your infantry, but decrease speed and damage of your unit.
3.) Repair (Require Army Plan Last Stand): Your Ost Panzerjäger Grenadier will now repair.
4.) Deploy Artillery (50 Ammo, Require Artillerist Upgrade): Your Ost Panzerjäger Grenadier will now launch artillery signal on location. Off-map artillery will be dropped.
5.) Deploy Fake Signal (Require Veteran Artillerist): Your Ost Panzerjäger Grenadier will now launch artillery signal on location. No Off-map artillery will be dropped.
They gain benefit from:
1.) Maximum Squad Size: Add 1 additional man and 1 additional PzB 35(p).
2.) Incendiary Element: Grant Ost Grenadier Incendiary Grenade.
3.) Scharfschützen-Schule Research: Grant your infantry Sniper Awareness ability

Raupenschlepper-Ost/PaK 40 (RSO/PaK 40) (300 MP 40 Fuel 4 Pop)
Type: Light Vehicle
Role: Anti-Tank
Raupenschlepper-Ost (RSO) is a heavily used vehicle in Eastern Front. This vehicle, as it is lighter than most half track, capable to move fast and ignore terrain reduced speed. Equipped with PaK 40, RSO/PaK 40 become a fast and powerful Anti-Tank for Ostheer. They gain benefit from:
1.) Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating: All vehicle and tank now equipped with Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating which decrease mine damage to vehicle and tank.
2.) Advance Engineering: Increase speed and fire range of vehicle and tank.

StuG III
Type: Medium Tank (340 MP 50 Fuel 4 Pop)
Role: Infantry Support; Tank Hunter
Require: 2 building built
Stug III is an assault tank that intended to become an Infantry Killer. As the war progress their role became more in to tank hunter than infantry support. A similar fate with its next generation Stug IV. They gain benefit from:
1.) Improved Tank Equipment: Grant Stug III side skirt armor.
2.) Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating: All vehicle and tank now equipped with Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating which decrease mine damage to vehicle and tank.
3.) Advance Engineering: Increase speed and fire range of vehicle and tank.

Buyable Research:
1.) Advance Engineering: Increase speed and fire range of vehicle and tank. (220 MP 35 Fuel)
2.) Improved Tank Equipment: Improve tank equipment. (400 MP 50 Fuel)

T4 (300 MP 50 Fuel)
Focus on the best of the best Unit, Unlock Superior Bonus

Buildable unit
Panzer IV (410 MP 70 Fuel 8 Pop)
Type: Medium Tank
Role: Tank Hunter
Require: 2 building built
Panzer IV is a tank that has many modifications along the war. Panzer IV is not as strong as Panther or Tiger, but they are cheaper and still have enough firepower to kill enemy tank. They gain benefit from:
1.) Improved Tank Equipment: Grant Panzer IV side skirt armor and manned machine gun.
2.) Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating: All vehicle and tank now equipped with Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating which decrease mine damage to vehicle and tank.
3.) Advance Engineering: Increase speed and fire range of vehicle and tank.

Jadgpanzer IV (600 MP 12 Pop)
Type: Heavy Tank
Role: Tank Hunter
Require: Tank Support
Due to enemy armor threat and limited Tank available, Ostheer gain reinforcement to stop enemy advance and show German steel’s superiority. Only 3 buildable. Jadgpanzer gains benefit from:
1.) Improved Tank Equipment: Grant Jadgpanzer IV side skirt armor.
2.) Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating: All vehicle and tank now equipped with Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating which decrease mine damage to vehicle and tank.
3.) Advance Engineering: Increase speed and fire range of vehicle and tank.
4.) Heavy Armor Full Support: Increase buildable Jadgpanzer IV by 2.

Tiger I (900 MP 115 Fuel 14 Pop)
Type: Heavy Tank
Role: Tank Hunter
Require: Tank Support, Heavy Armor Full Support
Only several numbers of tiger seen in battle, but the result they capable to do are mostly beyond imagination. However, Tiger is very slow and expensive to build and only 1 tiger available. They gain benefit from:
1.) Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating: All vehicle and tank now equipped with Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating which decrease mine damage to vehicle and tank.
2.) Advance Engineering: Increase speed and fire range of vehicle and tank.

Buyable Research:
1.) Heavy Armor Full Support: Allow you to build Tiger and allow you to build 2 additional Jadgpanzer IV. Require Tank Support Research. (300 MP 60 Fuel)
2.) Tank Support: Jadgpanzer IV to be built. Require 2 building built. (200 MP 20 Fuel)

Doctrine
Army Plan Bombardment (Focus on Artillery)
Unleash the true Artillery Potential of Ostheer. This doctrine will focus on long range potential of Ostheer. Your Ost Grenadier and Ost Panzerjäger Grenadier will be able to build beacon while your Builder Halftrack will be able to build Howitzer.


Left Side: Support Artillerist
Registered Sector Artillery – 2 CP: Allow you to call-in registered artillery to a sector or beacon
Now you can drop registered artillery on a sector like Wehrmacht and PE. You can also drop the artillery on Beacon. The Beacon has possibility to be destroyed by artillery.

Artillery Element – 2 CP: Grant your Ost Panzerjäger Grenadier with Artillery Element Upgrade.
Your Ost Panzerjäger Grenadier will now have Artillery Element Upgrade. Allow them to drop Artillery Signal (Marksman Style) on Area.

Wespe – 4 CP: Call-in a Wespe to aid your artillery forces
Allow you to call-in Wespe self-propelled artillery

Wespe (600 MP 12 Pop)
Type: Mobile Artillery
Role: Long Range
Wespe is slightly inferior than Hummel. However, they can move faster in stand of fire power and fire rate. Ability they can do:
1.) Barrage: Barrage on location
2.) Securing Artillery (On/Off Ability, Require Veteran Artillerist): Wespe will lock a sector and launch artillery when enemy indicated on sector.
They gain benefit from:
1.) Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating: All vehicle and tank now equipped with Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating which decrease mine damage to vehicle and tank.
2.) Advance Engineering: Increase speed and fire range of vehicle and tank.

Right Side: Specialist Artillery
Trained Artillerist – 2 CP: Increase accuracy and fire rate of your Artillery
It will increase your artillery unit (the long range unit) and emplacement accuracy and fire rate.

Improved Artillery – 2 CP: Reduce the cool down and increase fire range of your artillery
It will increase your artillery unit (the long range unit) and emplacement fire range and reduce their cool down abilty (like incendiary round).

Veteran Artillerist – 3 CP: Your long range unit will now able to use new ability
Every long range unit (Mortar Team, Wespe, and Howitzer) can now use new ability.

Army Plan Eastern Blitz (Focus on Speed)
Show your enemy the speed of Death. This doctrine will focus on Speed and constant firepower. Your Ost Grenadier and Ost Panzerjäger Grenadier will be able to trenches while your Builder Halftrack will be able to build Mortar Bunker instead of regular Bunker (Bunker previously created though will not replaced).

Left Side: Eastern Blitz
Reinforcement Blitz – 2 CP: Decrease the build time and reinforce time of all units
Your units’ build time now decreased and your reinforcement speed increase.

Gebirgsjäger – 3 CP: Call-in Gebirgsjäger. These men are elite infantry
Allow you to call in Gebirgsjäger

Gebirgsjäger (375 MP 6/8 Pop)
Type: Main Infantry
Role: Assault
Gebirgsjäger (Mountain Riflemen) are the Waffen SS squad consists of 3 men. They are equal to Knight Cross Holder in armor term, but only use Kar98k. They have some upgrade:
1.) Marksman (75 Ammo): Allow Gebirgsjäger to have a marksman. It allow them to snipe an infantry (Infantry Section style snipe) and increase its detection range.
2.) PzB 35(p) (75 Ammo, Require Armor Full Support Research): Equipped Gebirgsjäger with PzB 35(p) which capable to dealt damage to vehicle and tank.
3.) MP 44 (75 Ammo, Require Improved Equipment Research): Equipped Gebirgsjäger with MP 44 that do more damage against infantry.
They also can build defense:
1.) Barbed Wire
2.) Sandbag
3.) Dragon Teeth (For armor only)
4.) Roadblock (For both armor and infantry)
5.) Tower
Ability they can do:
1.) Throw Grenade (20 Ammo): Ost Grenadier will throw grenade to enemy. (Incendiary Grenade with Incendiary Element)
2.) Sniper Awareness (On/Off Map, Require Scharfschützen-Schule Research): (Decrease sniper accuracy against your infantry OR sniper require triple shot (they have elite armor) to kill your infantry) and grant detection range to your infantry, but decrease speed and damage of your unit.
3.) Marksman (25 Ammo, Require Marksman Upgrade): Snipe an infantry. (2 with Maximum Squad Size Upgrade)
They gain benefit from:
1.) Maximum Squad Size: Add 1 additional man.
2.) Incendiary Element: Grant Gebirgsjäger Incendiary Grenade.
3.) Scharfschützen-Schule Research: Grant your infantry Sniper Awareness ability and decrease the cool down of Marksman ability.

6 Weeks to Moscow – 2 CP: Permanently make all of your units to move at higher speed, but sacrifice small accuracy
Your troop will now move at higher speed and harder to suppress, however their accuracy will slightly decreased.

Right Side: Enemy Advance Counter
Spirit of Ostheer – 2 CP: Increase the sight range and fire range all units within territory and grant you ability that increase defense bonus for a period of time within territory
All of your unit will now have longer sight range and fire range. It also grant you with ability to increase defense bonus of your unit in your territory.

The Ace – 2 CP: Allow you to build Tiger I Ace.
From now on, your T4 Tiger I will be replaced by Tiger I Ace which equal to Whermacht vet 3 Tiger I. Tiger I that already built will remain same.

Panther – 4 CP: Call in a Panther.
You can now call-in Panther.

Panther (745 MP 12 Pop)
Type: Heavy Tank
Role: Tank Hunter
This fearsome beast is capable to streak fear to the very heart of the red army. Panther can penetrate most Allied tank and has thick frontal armor. But its side lack the similar armor. They gain benefit from:
1.) Improved Tank Equipment: Grant Panther side skirt armor and manned machine gun.
2.) Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating: All vehicle and tank now equipped with Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating which decrease mine damage to vehicle and tank.
3.) Advance Engineering: Increase speed and fire range of vehicle and tank.

Army Plan Last Stand (Focus on Heavy Support)
Grant you best of the best unit. This doctrine will focus on Heavy Armor and Full Firepower. Your Ost Grenadier and Ost Panzerjäger Grenadier will be able to repair while your Builder Halftrack will be able to do advance Repair.

Left Side: Heavy Armor Specialist
The Panzerscherck– 2 CP: Replace your troop PzB 35(p) with Panzerscherck.
Replace your Ost Grenadier and Ost Panzerjäger Grenadier PzB 35(p) with Panzerscherck.

Nashorn – 2 CP: Replace all RSO/PaK 40 with Nashorn Tank Destroyer
From now on, your T3 will build Nashorn Tank Destroyer instead RSO/PaK 40. All previously built RSO/PaK 40 will remain same.

Nashorn (300 MP 50 Fuel 6 Pop)
Type: Light Armor Tank
Role: Tank Hunter
Nashorn is one of the successful tank hunters in Eastern Front. Armed with the fearsome PaK 43/1, Nashorn proofed to be a formidable foe for T-34. They are better in term in Armor and Firepower while have same speed with Raupenschlepper-Ost/PaK 40 (RSO/PaK 40) they replace. They gain benefit from:
1.) Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating: All vehicle and tank now equipped with Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating which decrease mine damage to vehicle and tank.
2.) Advance Engineering: Increase speed and fire range of vehicle and tank.

Elefant – 6 CP: Call in an Elefant tank. This tank can only available once in a game
You can now call in Elefant. This tank can only exist once in a game.

Elefant (500 MP 16 Pop)
Type: Super Heavy Tank
Role: Tank Hunter
Elefant is one of the most successful tank hunter in WW II. This tank will eat all allied tank like breakfast. Elefant doesn’t get benefit from any upgrade.

Right Side: Map Control
Advance Map Control – 2 CP: Increase the speed of Sector Secure upgrade and your unit seize rate.
The point secure upgrade will now done faster and your unit will seize enemy territory faster.

Advance Map Secure – 1 CP: Allow Ost Grenadier and Ost Panzerjäger Grenadier to build Bunker. Your bunker can now be upgraded to MG Bunker.
Now your Ost Grenadier and Ost Panzerjäger Grenadier will be able to build bunker like builder halftrack and now all your bunker is upgradable with MG 34.

88mm Flak AT/AA Gun – 3 CP: Allow your Builder Halftrack; Ost Grenadier and Ost Panzerjäger Grenadier (Require Last Stand Doctrine) to build 88mm Flak AT/AA Gun
Your Builder Halftrack can now build 88mm Flak AT/AA Gun (400 MP 75 Fuel 11 Pop).

Defensive Building
15 cm schwere Feldhaubitze 18 (sFH 18/Howitzer)
German Howitzer that can devastate enemy. They can do Barrage and Firestorm Barrage (200 Ammo, Require Veteran Artillerist)

88mm Flak AT/AA Gun
This fearsome weapon can destroy aircraft and ground target a like.

Bunker
Defensive structure common in war. Can be upgraded into MG Bunker (75 Ammo, Require Advance Map Secure)

Mortar Bunker
Defensive structure with Mortar as primary armament. They can do Barrage.

Upgrade Outside Unit
Sector
Sector Secure (40 Ammo): Secure a sector.

Free House
Upgrade to Forward Barrack (250 MP): Upgrade free house to Forward Barrack.

That is my concept I sincerely wait for reply and any suggestion...
Also, it would be great if any of you can give any idea about the "tower" and base building name...

Thank You

Last edited March 19, 2010 at 11:34 AM by My Name Is Ante

This Ostheer concept is really good! I really like it. I would really like it if this was the Ostheer!

It's a very good propose... But the fact that you don't include the Elephant there and Panzers IV and V do, many wont like it :(. Of course its not my case ;D.

looks like PE (just a bit..)
i didnt understand the VET system ???

Very nique of an idea. Just a couple of things.
1: The Tiger is buidable? Any reason why you want this to be done? It should remain a doctrine call in for the reason of that only artound 1500 of the Tanks were built.

2: Good work on making the Panther tank a doctrine call in and replaced it with the Jadgpanzer 4.

3: Why does non of the units in the Ostheer have a incendiary weapon? It was probably the front that saw the largest use of fire as a weapon.

Other than that, good work. It would play this Ostheer. :D

First of all, thank your for all of the reply

Okay now for the answer

@irik
Thank you very much ;D

@blackbishop
I include Elefant as Doctrinal unit, you can see it in Army Plan Last Stand Doctrine

@Pauly3
Similar (due to research that unlock ability and unit) but I can ensure you they are different...
The vet effect available on territory with the tower, the base building you build unlock a new bonus. After build the tower, you select it and the option can be seen. Click bonus you wish, then all of tower will have the bonus you choose. Click another will activate the new bonus but deactive the old one. Is it understandable now?

@Panzer4life
1: It is only several, that is why only one available. However, more was seen in Eastern Front than Western, thus it buildable. The buildable Tiger I however is weak because it doesn't have real vet. While Tiger Ace doctrine there to keep the Wher Tiger charisma.

2: Thank you :)

3: Not as real weapon, but as ability. While it isn't bad to have flame as primary weapon, I think it isn't really balance in my concept, as my concept doesn't have any weak non-combat unit beside builder halftrack.

Once again thank you...

My wrote:
Base on thread created by UNR3AL, I realize that CoH somehow maintain a unique combination of starting unit. US and Wher started with weak unit combination while UK and PE start with their core infantry. In order to do the same combination, like SU the Ostheer don’t start with any unit. This will still balance as Ostheer unit tend to do better than any other faction even Wher.

No starting unit?:/

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However, another result from UNR3AL thread, Ostheer capable to secure point in a unique way. After some researches, Ostheer can upgrade the point. This upgradable point however has its own weakness: First, it use ammo that rarer than manpower; Second, the enemy doesn’t need to destroy anything, they only need to seize it twice. But with one Doctrine, it will be harder to seize than to destroy an outpost.

That was a good idea.
+1 for you and UNR3AL.

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Ostheer doesn’t really gain veterancy. Instead, they gain area wide bonus. How this implement? Ostheer capables to build tower in every areas.

Thats just wierd. Fresh but too wierd.

Quote
Hard hitting early and hard to be pressed at the end game. The Ostheer has some of the fastest unit to capture and seizing. This is balanced by having standard unit and lesser number. However, most of the research and upgrade are easy to gain, thus allow them to have better unit.

Lesser number than pios? I dont like the idea when you need to have a lot of weak units and you have to babysit them all.

Quote
There are 4 different buildings that Ostheer can build. The HQ has 3 different upgrades which will unlock 3 different bases. The 4th building only available after all upgrades in HQ purchased.

Cool. Something like a non doctrinale doctrine.:D
But wouldnt it be better to make some original call-ins instead.

Quote
Buildable unit
Ost Grenadier (300 MP 3/4 Pop)
Type: Main Infantry
Role: Assault
Ost Grenadier is a 3 men squad that armed with Kar98k. They can throw grenade and build defenses, also they can be upgraded with:
1.) LMG (MG 34) (75 Ammo)
2.) PzB 35(p) (Require Armor Full Support Upgrade; 75 Ammo)
The defenses they can build:
1.) Barbed Wire
2.) Sandbag
3.) Dragon Teeth
4.) Mine (20 ammo)
5.) Bobby Trap (15 ammo)
6.) Beacon (Require Army Plan Bombardment)
7.) Trenches (Require Army Plan Eastern Blitz)
8.) Tower
9.) Bunker (Require Advance Map Control)
Ability they can do:
1.) Throw Grenade (20 Ammo): Ost Grenadier will throw grenade to enemy. (Incendiary Grenade with Incendiary Element)
2.) Sniper Awareness (On/Off Ability, Require Scharfschützen-Schule Research): (Decrease sniper accuracy against your infantry OR sniper require double shot to kill your infantry) and grant detection range to your infantry, but decrease speed and damage of your unit.
3.) Repair (Require Army Plan Last Stand): Your Ost Grenadier will now repair.
They gain benefit from:
1.) Maximum Squad Size: Add 1 additional man and 1 additional weapon slot.
2.) Incendiary Element: Grant Ost Grenadier Incendiary Grenade.
3.) Scharfschützen-Schule Research: Grant your infantry Sniper Awareness ability

Sound like PE grens but with even more abilities (much too much).
If you want a 4 man squad upgrade giv it to weapon crews becouse ostheer cant recrew weapons so it could use a 4th man.

Quote
They can build:
1.) T1 Building
2.) T2 Building
3.) T3 Building
4.) T4 Building
5.) Tower
6.) Bunker (Mortar Bunker with Army Plan Eastern Blitz)
7.) Howitzer (Require Army Plan Bombardment)
Ability they can do:
Repair (Require Army Plan Last Stand): Your Builder Halftrack will now repair. (Advance Repair with Army Plan Last Stand)
1.) Maximum Squad Size: Increase all squad size. Unlock T1 (200 MP 25 Fuel)
2.) Incendiary Element: Grant some unit Incendiary type of weaponry and Bobby Trap will have Incendiary Effect.

I like a logistic halftrack idea. +1
Why does it benefit from Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating?
Zimmerit was used on tanks so sticky bombs and AT granades that used magnets would just fell of the armor.

Quote
Buildable unit
MG 34 (260 MP 3 Pop)
Type: Support Infantry
Role: Anti-Infantry
Equipped with a Tripod MG 34, they get lesser damage and suppression rate. In exchange, they gain longer range. Ability they can do:
Sniper Awareness (On/Off Ability, Require Scharfschützen-Schule Research): (Decrease sniper accuracy against your infantry OR sniper require double shot to kill your infantry) and grant detection range to your infantry, but decrease speed and damage of your unit.
They gain benefit from:
1.) Improved Equipment: Replace MG 34 with MG 34/41 (MG 34S) which has better damage and suppression rate.
2.) Scharfschützen-Schule Research: Grant your infantry Sniper Awareness ability

Wermacht needs an MG. But a weaker MG that costs the same as MG-42 and cannot be recrewed?
My idea was to make a buildeble light MG-34 3 man squad (like a gren squad with a MG-42 upgrade) with no ammo cost and tripod pugrade (light MG->heavy MG upgrade).
I like the Sniper Awareness but why do you need an On/Off button? Cant it be allways on, or when squads are immobile/in heavy cover.

Quote
Zündapp KS750 (180 MP 2 Pop)
Type: Light Vehicle
Role: Recon
Zündapp KS750 is the equivalent of Wehrmacht Motorcycle. They mostly same except that Zündapp KS750 equipped with MG 34 and have more armor. They gain benefit from:
1.) Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating: All vehicle and tank now equipped with Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating which decrease mine damage to vehicle and tank.
2.) Advance Engineering: Increase speed and fire range of vehicle and tank.

Every army needs a spoter unit but I doubt it will win with a Kubelwagen.
Zimmerit?

Quote
Raupenschlepper-Ost Transport Truck (200 MP 15 Fuel 4 Pop)
Type: Light Vehicle
Role: Support Vehicle
Raupenschlepper-Ost (RSO) is a heavily used vehicle in Eastern Front. This vehicle, as it is lighter than most half track, capable to move fast and ignore terrain reduced speed. This vehicle can be upgrade with:
1.) Ammo Truck (75 Ammo): Raupenschlepper-Ost will now have function similar to Ammunition Halftrack in exchange to its transport capability.
2.) Medic Truck (75 Ammo): Raupenschlepper-Ost will now capable to heal nearby infantry in exchange to its transport capability.
Ability they can do:
Unpack/Pack: Increase effect range. (Also 2 medics will be summoned which will collect body, 4 bodies required. The medic will disappear when RSO move)
They gain benefit from:
1.) Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating: All vehicle and tank now equipped with Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating which decrease mine damage to vehicle and tank.
2.) Advance Engineering: Increase speed and fire range of vehicle and tank.

Trucks are too easy to destroy. A halftrack with these abilities would be better.
Zimmerit?
Will there be a possibility to run away with this truck and leave medics behind?

Quote
1.) Improved Equipment: Replace old equipment with new and better equipment. (160 MP 25 Fuel)

What equipment and why so cheap? BARs alone cost 200MP/60fuel

Quote
Flakpanzer 38(t) (410 MP 40 Fuel 8 Pop)
Type: Anti-Air Unit
Role: Anti-Air, Anti-Infantry
Flakpanzer 38(t) initial role is to handle incoming enemy aircraft support. However, due to heavily land base nature of the war, the Flakpanzer 38(t) role becoming more into Anti-Infantry. They gain benefit from:
1.) Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating: All vehicle and tank now equipped with Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating which decrease mine damage to vehicle and tank.
2.) Advance Engineering: Increase speed and fire range of vehicle and tank.

Why does it cost the same as Ostwind if it has worse armor (Pz 38(t) - Marder armor).
Youre Flakpanzer and PzIII are very similar units (lighter than mediums, good vs infantry and light vechicles.

Quote
Buildable Unit:
Ost Panzerjäger Grenadier (330 MP 3/4 Pop)
Type: Support Infantry
Role: Anti-Tank Unit
This squad is Ost Grenadier that has been upgraded with PzB 35(p). They are identical in stats and have same ability. They can be upgraded with:
Artillerist (75 Ammo, Require Artillery Element): Allow your Ost Panzerjäger Grenadier to drop Artillery on area.
The defenses they can build:
1.) Barbed Wire
2.) Sandbag
3.) Dragon Teeth
4.) Mine (20 ammo)
5.) Bobby Trap (15 ammo)
6.) Beacon (Require Army Plan Bombardment)
7.) Trenches (Require Army Plan Eastern Blitz)
8.) Tower
9.) Bunker (Require Advance Map Control)
Ability they can do:
1.) Throw Grenade (20 Ammo): Ost Panzerjäger Grenadier will throw grenade to enemy. (Incendiary Grenade with Incendiary Element)
2.) Sniper Awareness (On/Off Ability, Require Scharfschützen-Schule Research): (Decrease sniper accuracy against your infantry OR sniper require double shot to kill your infantry) and grant detection range to your infantry, but decrease speed and damage of your unit.
3.) Repair (Require Army Plan Last Stand): Your Ost Panzerjäger Grenadier will now repair.
4.) Deploy Artillery (50 Ammo, Require Artillerist Upgrade): Your Ost Panzerjäger Grenadier will now launch artillery signal on location. Off-map artillery will be dropped.
5.) Deploy Fake Signal (Require Veteran Artillerist): Your Ost Panzerjäger Grenadier will now launch artillery signal on location. No Off-map artillery will be dropped.
They gain benefit from:
1.) Maximum Squad Size: Add 1 additional man and 1 additional PzB 35(p).
2.) Incendiary Element: Grant Ost Grenadier Incendiary Grenade.
3.) Scharfschützen-Schule Research: Grant your infantry Sniper Awareness ability

Another unit that can do anything.

Quote
Raupenschlepper-Ost/PaK 40 (RSO/PaK 40) (200 MP 15 Fuel 4 Pop)
Type: Light Vehicle
Role: Anti-Tank
Raupenschlepper-Ost (RSO) is a heavily used vehicle in Eastern Front. This vehicle, as it is lighter than most half track, capable to move fast and ignore terrain reduced speed. Equipped with PaK 40, RSO/PaK 40 become a fast and powerful Anti-Tank for Ostheer. They gain benefit from:
1.) Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating: All vehicle and tank now equipped with Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating which decrease mine damage to vehicle and tank.
2.) Advance Engineering: Increase speed and fire range of vehicle and tank.

Sounds like a faster and much cheaper Marder.
Make it slower or more expensive.

Quote
Type: Medium Tank (340 MP 50 Fuel 6 Pop)
Role: Infantry Support; Tank Hunter
Require: 2 building built
Stug III is an assault tank that intended to become an Infantry Killer. As the war progress their role became more in to tank hunter than infantry support. A similar fate with its next generation Stug IV. They gain benefit from:

Another mobile PAK 7,5cm.
Why is it 6pop cap. StugIV is 4pop cap.

Quote
Panzer IV is a tank that has many modifications along the war. Panzer IV is not as strong as Panther or Tiger, but they are cheaper and still have enough firepower to kill enemy tank. They gain benefit from:

3rd mobile PAK 7,5cm.

Quote
Jadgpanzer IV (600 MP 12 Pop)
Type: Heavy Tank
Role: Tank Hunter

4th mobile PAK 7,5cm. At least this one has a more powerfull Panthers gun.

Quote
Tiger I (900 MP 115 Fuel 14 Pop)

Why should ostheer pay as many MP as werhmacht for a Tiger that has no vet. Doctrinal call-ins are more MP expensive becouse you can save fuel and have another unit to choose from. Non doctrinal Tiger should cost about 750MP but much more than a panther (140).


Artillery doctine is boring and OP. The only interesting thing in it is wespe. When youre doing an arti doctrine (dont know why arti doctrines are wwI based, thats so not German) compare it to Canadian arti.


Why is Gebirgsjäger in blitz doctrine?

Whats the point of making a doctrinal 800MP Panther call-in if PE can call-in 2 non doctrinal panthers that gain vet for 1000MP?
Whats the point of making a 3 on the field limit? 3 panthers are 36pop cap. You also need support for these heavies.


I like Army Plan Last Stand the most but its like in other doctrines its based on units not tactics. Why do you call Nashorns and Elephants the last stand weapons?

Last edited March 15, 2010 at 1:57 PM by Paciat

Paciat wrote:

My wrote:
Base on thread created by UNR3AL, I realize that CoH somehow maintain a unique combination of starting unit. US and Wher started with weak unit combination while UK and PE start with their core infantry. In order to do the same combination, like SU the Ostheer don’t start with any unit. This will still balance as Ostheer unit tend to do better than any other faction even Wher.

No starting unit?:/

Quote
However, another result from UNR3AL thread, Ostheer capable to secure point in a unique way. After some researches, Ostheer can upgrade the point. This upgradable point however has its own weakness: First, it use ammo that rarer than manpower; Second, the enemy doesn’t need to destroy anything, they only need to seize it twice. But with one Doctrine, it will be harder to seize than to destroy an outpost.

That was a good idea.
+1 for you and UNR3AL.

Thx :)
His concept has starting unit. Read it all first.
And about capping points. 1)Why munition cost? Upgrade can cost manpower too(and I think it's better solution but it's your concept  :)). And 60 M is too much.
                                    2)You worked good with my capping concept. I had same seize idea too, but i didn't write it in my thread. GJ
BTW nice concept

Last edited March 15, 2010 at 5:54 PM by Unr3aL

Wow Paciat, you always come with good critics as always...
Never expected you won't be the first to post here though...

Okay, now go to business
1) About starting unit
Paciat is right, I don't use starting unit here. Just like SU doesn't start with any unit. But the HQ of course has units to be built if that what you mean. Well, my argument is because unlike many early unit like Pioneer, Engineer, and even Panzer Grenadier, they have an early anti-spam ability grenade. Also the research to improve their combat efficiency available really early: in their HQ. But well, I think I'll reconsider it.

2) About securing point
Thank you to Paciat for the compliment and to Unr3al for the inspiration. The ammo is to give it 2 advantages and 2 disadvantages. About the seize, it comes to my mind since the first time I read your post. I believe it not just me. But hey, thanks for the compliment.

3)

Paciat wrote:
Thats just wierd. Fresh but too wierd.

It is weird as it never be implemented before. We need a real practice. However, my concept mostly based from this vet system. Change it will make my concept need a huge change. So, I will keep this vet system. It once again depends on people opinion and real practice.

4)

Paciat wrote:
Lesser number than pios? I dont like the idea when you need to have a lot of weak units and you have to babysit them all.

What do you mean by have lesser number than Pios? All of the squad at least has 3 men.

5)

Paciat wrote:
Cool. Something like a non doctrinale doctrine.:D
But wouldnt it be better to make some original call-ins instead.

Thank you. I don't put call-in unit because I think it will too similar with PE and don't have any good thought on what unit that can become a good call in unit.

4)

Paciat wrote:
Sound like PE grens but with even more abilities (much too much).
If you want a 4 man squad upgrade giv it to weapon crews becouse ostheer cant recrew weapons so it could use a 4th man.

Similar but not same. They can't repair (Unless you choose Army Plan Last Stand Doctrine). The weapon crews of course has 4th man.

6)

Paciat wrote:
I like a logistic halftrack idea. +1

You are welcome ;D

7)

Paciat wrote:
Wermacht needs an MG. But a weaker MG that costs the same as MG-42 and cannot be recrewed?
My idea was to make a buildeble light MG-34 3 man squad (like a gren squad with a MG-42 upgrade) with no ammo cost and tripod pugrade (light MG->heavy MG upgrade).

They should actually have 4 men (as their building require Maximum Squad Size Research) my bad :P
The MG 34 will really shine after Improved Equipment Research as it will have equal damage and suppression but have longer range
About the team, I just don't feel it will fit with my concept but I will think about it.

8.)

Paciat wrote:
Every army needs a spoter unit but I doubt it will win with a Kubelwagen.

I don't quite this post...
Did you mean I should use Kubelwagen instead? ???
or Zündapp won't win against Kubelwagen? ???

9)

Paciat wrote:
Trucks are too easy to destroy. A halftrack with these abilities would be better.

Will there be a possibility to run away with this truck and leave medics behind?

Because it has faster speed and ignore terrain penalty...
And no, the medic will disappear when you move.

10)

Paciat wrote:
What equipment and why so cheap? BARs alone cost 200MP/60fuel

MG 34 with MG 34/S
5 cm leGrW 36 with kz 8 cm GrW 42
Grant Gebirgsjäger with MP 44 upgrade
About the price, that is my bad :P
I forget to chance the price as earlier when I begin this version it doesn't grant much. Changed now...

11)

Paciat wrote:
Why does it cost the same as Ostwind if it has worse armor (Pz 38(t) - Marder armor).
Youre Flakpanzer and PzIII are very similar units (lighter than mediums, good vs infantry and light vechicles.

Cause it come earlier and with similar effectiveness against infantry. But per haps I should change it to have similar price with AC? ???
About the similarity...
Well, similar but still different. Panzer III in my concept suppose to fight against early version of medium tank while Flakpanzer to fight against infantry.

12)

Paciat wrote:
Another unit that can do anything.

Like PE has Panzer Grenadier and Tank Buster...
But this one has worse AT and the weapon make them not as effective against infantry.

13)

Paciat wrote:
Sounds like a faster and much cheaper Marder.
Make it slower or more expensive.

Again, my bad :P
I forget to change the price. It is changed now...
By the way, they are easier to destroyed more than Marder but have more damage...

14)

Paciat wrote:
Another mobile PAK 7,5cm.
Why is it 6pop cap. StugIV is 4pop cap.

3rd mobile PAK 7,5cm.

4th mobile PAK 7,5cm. At least this one has a more powerfull Panthers gun.

Like Wehr that has a lot of tank. But of course it for different situation of battle and resource

15)

Paciat wrote:
Why should ostheer pay as many MP as werhmacht for a Tiger that has no vet. Doctrinal call-ins are more MP expensive becouse you can save fuel and have another unit to choose from. Non doctrinal Tiger should cost about 750MP but much more than a panther (140).

Hm... I'll take that as consideration, but my point is to make them not come really early...

16)

Paciat wrote:
Artillery doctine is boring and OP. The only interesting thing in it is wespe. When youre doing an arti doctrine (dont know why arti doctrines are wwI based, thats so not German) compare it to Canadian arti.

I am not really master on Arty and I rarely use them, but I believe there must be an focused artillery doctrine.
So can you tell me why is is boring and OP? ???
And what is wwI based here? ???

17)

Paciat wrote:
Why is Gebirgsjäger in blitz doctrine?

Whats the point of making a doctrinal 800MP Panther call-in if PE can call-in 2 non doctrinal panthers that gain vet for 1000MP?
Whats the point of making a 3 on the field limit? 3 panthers are 36pop cap. You also need support for these heavies.

So there will be a decent call-in unit... :P

Aw, another my bad... :P
It was spot for another tank, as it really strong in my opinion, I limited it to 3. Then I replace it with Panther which should actually buildable. When buildable I make it only 3 buildable (for variation and balance). About the price, I am a bit confused about how much it should have. As it has 115 fuel when buildable, 100 MP will to low.

Well, I remove the limitation and decrease the price now...

18)

Paciat wrote:
I like Army Plan Last Stand the most but its like in other doctrines its based on units not tactics. Why do you call Nashorns and Elephants the last stand weapons?

Thank you ;D
I never mention that, but their reputation is good enough to make them put in Last Stand Doctrine.
About unit and tactics. What is the point of good unit without good tactics? Micro them and they are gone... ;D

Paciat wrote:
Why does it benefit from Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating?
Zimmerit was used on tanks so sticky bombs and AT granades that used magnets would just fell of the armor.

Zimmerit?

Zimmerit?

A lot of question about Zimmerit there... ;D
Well, the idea is to increase their survivability, because they don't have decent utility unit beside builder halftrack (Of course beside Army Plan Last Stand Doctrine) and it is too risky to sent them (In a midst of war, there are easier to hit because they are bigger. Also, they really is vulnerable to AT hit when e.g. Flankpanzer against Armour Car).
I know it is not historically accurate, by still applicable in gameplay (Relic example: Bergetiger and Panzer IV Infantry Support Faster Reload (<== That's the ability isn't it?))

Once again, thanks Paciat and Unr3aL for the comment... ;D
Wait for another comment and the suggestion for the building and tower name...
Thanks ;D

Last edited March 19, 2010 at 11:35 AM by My Name Is Ante

My wrote:
1) About starting unit
Paciat is right, I don't use starting unit here. Just like SU doesn't start with any unit. But the HQ of course has units to be built if that what you mean. Well, my argument is because unlike many early unit like Pioneer, Engineer, and even Panzer Grenadier, they have an early anti-spam ability grenade. Also the research to improve their combat efficiency available really early: in their HQ. But well, I think I'll reconsider it.

No starting unit is typical for Russians, Ostheer should have starting unit like other faction. ;)
And I thought unit which can be build in HQ, my mistake.

Quote

Quote
Lesser number than pios? I dont like the idea when you need to have a lot of weak units and you have to babysit them all.

What do you mean by have lesser number than Pios? All of the squad at least has 3 men.

So youre wont be lesser in numbers like you said. They will have standard 3-4 man squad.

Quote
Similar but not same. They can't repair (Unless you choose Army Plan Last Stand Doctrine). The weapon crews of course has 4th man.

Who will repair youre vechicles then? UK has no early game repair unit but its bren carrier can repair itself.

Quote
I don't quite this post...
Did you mean I should use Kubelwagen instead? ???
or Zündapp won't win against Kubelwagen? ???

Thats what I meant. Building a German motorcicle was as expensive as building 2,5 kubelwagons! so Germany started to mass produce them. You can see this in documentary videos. In 1941 german army uses a lot of motorcicles but in 1944 not as many.
Kubelwagons could also tow light guns.

Quote
Because it has faster speed and ignore terrain penalty...
And no, the medic will disappear when you move.

A truck can ignore terrain penalty while a halftrack cant?

Quote

Quote
Another mobile PAK 7,5cm.
Why is it 6pop cap. StugIV is 4pop cap.

3rd mobile PAK 7,5cm.

4th mobile PAK 7,5cm. At least this one has a more powerfull Panthers gun.

Like Wehr that has a lot of tank. But of course it for different situation of battle and resource

You have stugs and AT halftracks while wehrmacht has stugs or AT halftracks. You have PzIV ,jagdpanzerIV, doctrinal panthers and tigers while wehrmacht has PzIV,  panthers and doctrinal tigers.
Thats 2 units too many.

Quote
I am not really master on Arty and I rarely use them, but I believe there must be an focused artillery doctrine.
So can you tell me why is is boring and OP? ???
And what is wwI based here? ???

Most artillery doctrines were born in the trenches of WWI.
Becouse UK were traditionalists an artillery doctrine fits them good.
The boring thing in your arti doctrine is that it just upgrades youre is that it just upgrades youre arti, gives arti strikes for ammo and theres a similar to hummel call-in. There are no abilities like a recon plane to spot for arti or counter batery.
A siege doctrine would be interesting. You could add bundle granades, flamethrower tanks, etc.

Quote
About unit and tactics. What is the point of good unit without good tactics? Micro them and they are gone... ;D

Sorry, what I meant has that doctrines shouldnt just upgrade a units abilities but also give new ones. (like lets say bundle granades or binoculars for moutain troops so they become a siege/spotter unit but only in arti doctrine)

Building HT can repair. ;)

1) Starting Unit
Okay, now I change the sentence. Ostheer now begin with starting unit. After long time of thinking, I guess it is right that they should have starting unit.

2)

Paciat wrote:

Quote

Quote
Lesser number than pios? I dont like the idea when you need to have a lot of weak units and you have to babysit them all.

What do you mean by have lesser number than Pios? All of the squad at least has 3 men.

So youre wont be lesser in numbers like you said. They will have standard 3-4 man squad.

Here is where the though come from: Of course PE has similar number of main infantry (3-4 men) but compare to Wehr (Volksgrenadier has 5 men) and US, they certainly has less number. Also, their support infantry at beginning only has 3 men despite incapability to recapture it. That's what I mean.

3)

Paciat wrote:

Quote
Similar but not same. They can't repair (Unless you choose Army Plan Last Stand Doctrine). The weapon crews of course has 4th man.

Who will repair youre vechicles then? UK has no early game repair unit but its bren carrier can repair itself.

Unr3aL wrote:
Building HT can repair. ;)

Thanks Unr3aL for the early answer. Yes, it is the builder Halftrack.

4)

Paciat wrote:

Quote
I don't quite this post...
Did you mean I should use Kubelwagen instead? ???
or Zündapp won't win against Kubelwagen? ???

Thats what I meant. Building a German motorcicle was as expensive as building 2,5 kubelwagons! so Germany started to mass produce them. You can see this in documentary videos. In 1941 german army uses a lot of motorcicles but in 1944 not as many.
Kubelwagons could also tow light guns.

Well, I believe it become what do you prefer then. I prefer Motorcycle so I believe I won't change it.

5)

Paciat wrote:

Quote
Because it has faster speed and ignore terrain penalty...
And no, the medic will disappear when you move.

A truck can ignore terrain penalty while a halftrack cant?

That is what I read. Because of the rough terrain of Eastern Front, the Halftrack can't functioning well, so the Germany then created RSO. Isn't right? Or perhaps I miss something? ???

6)

Paciat wrote:

Quote
Another mobile PAK 7,5cm.
Why is it 6pop cap. StugIV is 4pop cap.

3rd mobile PAK 7,5cm.

4th mobile PAK 7,5cm. At least this one has a more powerfull Panthers gun.

Like Wehr that has a lot of tank. But of course it for different situation of battle and resource

You have stugs and AT halftracks while wehrmacht has stugs or AT halftracks. You have PzIV ,jagdpanzerIV, doctrinal panthers and tigers while wehrmacht has PzIV,  panthers and doctrinal tigers.
Thats 2 units too many.
[/quote]
The RSO is created to become the counterpart of the AT-gun, not the reward replacement of stug IV. So, here it won't become much problem. However, I must agree with you about the tank that available for Ostheer. I'll change it soon.

7)

Paciat wrote:

Quote
I am not really master on Arty and I rarely use them, but I believe there must be an focused artillery doctrine.
So can you tell me why is is boring and OP? ???
And what is wwI based here? ???

Most artillery doctrines were born in the trenches of WWI.
Becouse UK were traditionalists an artillery doctrine fits them good.
The boring thing in your arti doctrine is that it just upgrades youre is that it just upgrades youre arti, gives arti strikes for ammo and theres a similar to hummel call-in. There are no abilities like a recon plane to spot for arti or counter batery.
A siege doctrine would be interesting. You could add bundle granades, flamethrower tanks, etc.

After see again the concept, I must say: "My Bad :P"
Some of the ability erased by the supposed to be erased ability. I'll fix it later. ;)

8.)

Paciat wrote:

Quote
About unit and tactics. What is the point of good unit without good tactics? Micro them and they are gone... ;D

Sorry, what I meant has that doctrines shouldnt just upgrade a units abilities but also give new ones. (like lets say bundle granades or binoculars for moutain troops so they become a siege/spotter unit but only in arti doctrine)

There are a bunch of good idea recently, I'll updated it with them later. Just wait ;)

Thanks for the good critics... ;D
Wait for next updated... ;)

Thanks