Mr. Scruff's Creations

I really hope that the models will be somewhere safe if it isn't going to be featured. What do you guys think? PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF THERE IS A THREAD ON THIS!!!!!!
PLease, Please vote!

Last edited March 10, 2010 at 1:27 AM by irik

yes!

ford_prefect wrote:
yes!

Indeed... yes :D

Well the Elefant is most definately going to be included as its been in the Promo videos along with the Jagdtiger.

However theres abit of dispute over whether the latter should be included in the Ost, as it was primarily a Western Front unit.

I'd quite like to see it as a reward unit to replace the KT, and have the KT in the Ostheer somewhere perhaps.

But dont worry, you'll be able to play both of them if you really want  :)

I voted for safely stored becouse I want
Elephant - Be featured in Ostheer
Jagdtiger - Be deleted and destroyed

I just dont want a Jagdtiger (same armor as KT/Jagdpanther, 2500-3000HP!) beceouse it will take 5 minutes to circlestrafe and kill it. A cheaper Elephant (1500-2000HP, Tiger I armor) is enough.

Playing Kursk without the Elephant(Ferdinand) will be wierd too.

Please show some pics of this Elephant. Pleaseee!

Last edited March 10, 2010 at 1:47 PM by Paciat

luz777 wrote:
Well the Elefant is most definately going to be included as its been in the Promo videos along with the Jagdtiger.

However theres abit of dispute over whether the latter should be included in the Ost, as it was primarily a Western Front unit.

I'd quite like to see it as a reward unit to replace the KT, and have the KT in the Ostheer somewhere perhaps.

But dont worry, you'll be able to play both of them if you really want  :)

+1

Paciat wrote:
I voted for safely stored becouse I want
Elephant - Be featured in Ostheer
Jagdtiger - Be deleted and destroyed

I just dont want a Jagdtiger (same armor as KT/Jagdpanther, 2500-3000HP!) beceouse it will take 5 minutes to circlestrafe and kill it. A cheaper Elephant (1500-2000HP, Tiger I armor) is enough.

Playing Kursk without the Elephant(Ferdinand) will be wierd too.

Please show some pics of this Elephant. Pleaseee!

Not all things should be in but I would like to see many of his things (not the erm...Jagtiger though)

Elefant/Ferdinand for sure. But why destroy the Jagdtiger? ET44 and other mods could certainly use it.

Question- Is Mr. Scruffs Stug IV going to be used for ostheer, cause I'm sick of the damn things used by Wehrmacht.

Akalonor wrote:
Question- Is Mr. Scruffs Stug IV going to be used for ostheer, cause I'm sick of the damn things used by Wehrmacht.

So you want a stugIII?
German infantry belived that untill there is a stug on the field they can win a fight. Anyway, Gwagons are weak vs AT rifles so +1 for the early (mid game) stugIII.

Akalonor wrote:
Question- Is Mr. Scruffs Stug IV going to be used for ostheer, cause I'm sick of the damn things used by Wehrmacht.

Its not about what we are "sick" of. Do you want them to create new helmets because you are sick of the stahlhelm? Would you dare to suggest the Panzer IV to not be included? Don't forget, the "East Army" was still the Wehrmacht. It is correct to say the East Army fought with different weapons and tactics than the western German armies, due to the fact that they fought very different enemies, but let's not get out of hand here, this is still the Heer we are talking about.

That being said....it would be a crime not to add the StuG III, the most produced AFV of Nazi Germany, but why not keep the StuG IV(if only for aesthetic variety, the combat performance of the two vehicles was not much different) in a more minor role, to better represent its numberical contribution, perhaps as a call-in. (9500 Stug IIIs produced, 1100 Stug IVs produced)

Last edited March 12, 2010 at 8:43 AM by Ost_Front_Soldat

Ost_Front_Soldat wrote:

Akalonor wrote:
Question- Is Mr. Scruffs Stug IV going to be used for ostheer, cause I'm sick of the damn things used by Wehrmacht.

Its not about what we are "sick" of. Do you want them to create new helmets because you are sick of the stahlhelm? Would you dare to suggest the Panzer IV to not be included? Don't forget, the "East Army" was still the Wehrmacht. It is correct to say the East Army fought with different weapons and tactics than the western German armies, due to the fact that they fought very different enemies, but let's not get out of hand here, this is still the Heer we are talking about.

That being said....it would be a crime not to add the StuG III, the most produced AFV of Nazi Germany, but why not keep the StuG IV(if only for aesthetic variety, the combat performance of the two vehicles was not much different) in a more minor role, to better represent its numberical contribution, perhaps as a call-in. (9500 Stug IIIs produced, 1100 Stug IVs produced)

There were 11000 StugIII build. Youre probably talking about 7,5cm long barrel versions.

Anyway I "dare to suggest the Panzer IV to not be included".

PzIII (more armor and AT firepower than staghound/ostwind) StugIII and Tiger I will probably be in the Ostheer.
A quad halftrack can replace Armored cars and Ostwinds while JagdpanzerIV can be the late game tank destroyer.(doctrinal or not)

And thats it. All 5 armies have only 3 non doctrinal medium(or heavy) tanks/SP guns. There is no more room for more.

11000 chassis, yes, only 9500 StuG IIIs, the rest were StuH self-propelled howitzers.

Ok, the Panzer IV, the reason why Germany lasted as long as it did, not to be included? I find this an insult to the legacy of that tank. The Panzer III might seem exotic to you now that you've seen the relic Panzer IV for years but do not let that eclipse what is really important. The Panzer IV is absolutely necessary, who would even want to play an Ostheer without their most important tank.

Last edited March 12, 2010 at 5:31 PM by Ost_Front_Soldat

No panzer IV's , Panzer III Flamethrower would be better.

Again, I find myself at a loss for words here. The Panzer II deserves representation, but not at the cost of the Panzer IV, and i'm going to stop there.

If ostheer receive Pz IV It'll be too bland -.- PE- Pz IV ,W-Pz IV ,O-Pz IV ? NO too much Pz IV!!

Buddy, the Panzer IV is and was literally the backbone of the Wehrmacht. Bland? What is this, summer fashion? We are trying to make a credible Ostheer here. Why you people are obsessed with the Panzer III, i'll never know. They need the Panzer IV in both the Ausf. F1 and the F2.

Do you want to give every allied faction M5 since it was used widely too ?

No, there were other methods of troops transport, ie Trucks, in the case of the Soviets, they need the M5.

There is a difference between something that was widely used, to something that was absolutely crucial. The Panzer IV was both these things. So, according to Akalonor's scale of blandness, Ostheer should not have either Panzer IVs or Panthers, since the PE and Wehr already have them. Wow, that leaves only super heavy tanks, tank destroyers, and ofcourse the................. P4NZ3R 3!!!1!................ ::)

Last edited March 13, 2010 at 8:43 PM by Ost_Front_Soldat

pfft of course not the Panzer 3 or 1, I vote for
FLAMMpanzer Ausf. M :) 

By the way I'm okay with Panthers

I just hate how AI/Humans spam Panzer IV's you people don't know how hypocritical you really are.

Akalonor wrote:
pfft of course not the Panzer 3 or 1, I vote for
FLAMMpanzer Ausf. M :) 

By the way I'm okay with Panthers

I just hate how AI/Humans spam Panzer IV's you people don't know how hypocritical you really are.

How am I being hypocritical?

did I specify ? No , It's just that everyone is always whining about people spamming certain new possibility tanks but really they enforce it by giving Germans THE SAME CHEAP STUFF

All I want is an end product of an Ostheer that feels like Ostheer. Without a Panzer IV I do not see how it will be so.

It would be like the creators behind Call of Duty: World at War to saying "Hmm, the Thompson has appeared in so many games up until now, let's add the M3 Grease Gun instead.". No one is arguing with the fact that the M3 was a valuable, servicable submachine-gun, but the point is, you cannot create a game that depicts US Marines in WWII and not include the Thompson SMG. Same rules apply for the Panzer IV for the East Army.

Ost_Front_Soldat wrote:
Buddy, the Panzer IV is and was literally the backbone of the Wehrmacht. Bland? What is this, summer fashion? We are trying to make a credible Ostheer here. Why you people are obsessed with the Panzer III, i'll never know. They need the Panzer IV in both the Ausf. F1 and the F2.

StugIII was as important to III reich as the PzIV. Wehrmacht has only StuIV, PE has nothing (exept hetzers).
Commonwealth was no regural Shermans etc.

"People are obsessed with the Panzer III" becouse there is no PzIII, while 5800 were build!
Eveyone wants a new unit that is fast and armed enough to be good vs infantry and light tanks (faster and better AT gun than stubby but 100 HP less). Another PzIV that is compareble with cromwell/sherman would be just borring.

Last edited March 15, 2010 at 10:33 AM by Paciat

Paciat wrote:

Ost_Front_Soldat wrote:
Buddy, the Panzer IV is and was literally the backbone of the Wehrmacht. Bland? What is this, summer fashion? We are trying to make a credible Ostheer here. Why you people are obsessed with the Panzer III, i'll never know. They need the Panzer IV in both the Ausf. F1 and the F2.

StugIII was as important to III reich as the PzIV. Wehrmacht has only StuIV, PE has nothing (exept hetzers).
Commonwealth was no regural Shermans etc.

"People are obsessed with the Panzer III" becouse there is no PzIII, while 9400 were build!
Eveyone wants a new unit that is fast and armed enough to be good vs infantry and light tanks (faster and better AT gun than stubby but 100 HP less). Another PzIV that is compareble with cromwell/sherman would be just borring.

5800 actual Panzer IIIs were built. Being better at AT than the Panzer IV F1 isn't saying much, the Panzer III still was outclassed as soon as it crossed over the border. The Panzer IV on the other had was still a reliable design up to the last days of the war. I won't argue with, and I don't care what you might think is "boring". That is the most absurd argument I have ever heard on these forums(I don't like the Panzer IV because it is boring). If that is how simple minded you people are, in a few months you'll be bored of the T-34 too.

If you honestly think the Panzer III contributed more to the German war effort in Russia than the Panzer IV, I won't even argue with you. I've wasted enough sense and time on this subject.

Quote
5800 actual Panzer IIIs were built. Being better at AT than the Panzer IV F1 isn't saying much, the Panzer III still was outclassed as soon as it crossed over the border. The Panzer IV on the other had was still a reliable design up to the last days of the war. I won't argue with, and I don't care what you might think is "boring". That is the most absurd argument I have ever heard on these forums(I don't like the Panzer IV because it is boring). If that is how simple minded you people are, in a few months you'll be bored of the T-34 too.

If you honestly think the Panzer III contributed more to the German war effort in Russia than the Panzer IV, I won't even argue with you. I've wasted enough sense and time on this subject.

Sorry about the wrong numbers about PzIII. Polish wikipedia said only how many stugs were build but nothing about the real tanks. I saw "9400 were build" copy, paste...

If 3 allied fractions had T-34 I would be bored wit it too. Thats why I dont want a UK short barreled or Soviet Lend-Lease Sherman.

Panzer III didnt contributed more to the German war effort in Russia than the Panzer IV.
StugIV didnt contributed more to the German war effort in Russia than the StugIII.
Cromwell didnt contributed more to the UK war effort in Europe than the short barreled Sherman.
But making a UK short barreled sherman that can be upgunned with a 17lbs would be boring too.

The reason COH is fun is becouse different armies have different units but all armies are balanced.
Balance and being unique comes first. History is second.

Last edited March 15, 2010 at 10:59 AM by Paciat

Just a small note;
When i'm informed right then Panzer III was able with 5cm KwK L/60 to destroy armor from 57mm ( Panzergranate ) to 79mm ( Panzergranate 40 ) in a rang of 500m. The T-34 tank model 1943 hat a front armor of 45mm ( 30° ). The typical fight distance between tanks was around 400-500m. So i'm no engineer but think that Panzer III was able to knock out T-34 ;)
History confirmed this from 1942 till 1945 because Panzer III destroyed a high number of T-34.
Other point; in 1940 Soviet Union got a number of german Panzer III for the Molotow-Ribbentrop-deal. The red army inspected this german Panzer III and had following results in conclusion with T-34:
The Pz III was better then T-34 ( Prototypes ). Technique was more difficult then T-34 but was better to repair/ to service ( especially for the crew because of a number of on bord tools ). PzIII had more space for the crew inside.
PzIII had radio foor easy communication. The view out of PzIII was much better then out of T-34.
All in all red army thought that Pz III was a problematical enemy for its tank forces.
[ my note: and the 5 men crew of the german Panzer forces with a tank commander who observed the battlefield was one the biggest advantage of german tanks in conclusion with red armor ]

All in all i wouldnt say that Pz III was "outclassed" ;)
The tank was quiet different from the T-34 and both tanks used other battle tactics. All in all Panzer III was a
acceptable medium tank which was able to destroy enemy's tanks ;)

BUT this is all offtopic because the threadsd starts with question about MrScruffs models and for this point i want to add that when i'm informed right Elefant wasnt Scruff's model and Jagdtiger is used by different mods already.

Last edited March 15, 2010 at 11:00 AM by Lord Rommel

which mods use Jagdtiger then? I want to use it!!!!!!

Think  that Blitzkrieg Mod and Heeresgruppe Nord Mod use this tank ( german mods ).

I've never heard of the Heeresgruppe Nord mod, explain now please!

Well. I wont explain this mod because the "creater" is a unfriendly, aggressive and silly person ;)
And because of this i dont know anything about this mod.
I just know that this mod uses MrScruffs Jagdtiger because Scruff told this to me
( he told me a lot and showed me a lot of his work
- for the jagdtiger i sent him "blueprints" to help
him and so i was good informed about this vehicle
:-\  :'( ).

google is your friend
http://hq-coh.com/forum/index.php?topic=6049.0

Seems interesting... But I will stop there because of Rommel's hostility towards the Creator :)  This is the 5th time(Within this year) Fully learning German would've been useful hah

On topic, I think Mr. Scruff's creations should be featured AND saved, If he wanted it put in than It should....
R.I.P. Mr. Scruff

Ferdinand/Elefant should be in Ostheer, Jagdtiger definitly not!

Besides, moddb.com shows the model already

http://www.moddb.com/mods/coheastern-front/images/elefant#imagebox

I implore for Jagdtiger and Elefant to be featured in Ostheer. I would love the models to be safe at least.

Akalonor wrote:
Seems interesting... But I will stop there because of Rommel's hostility towards the Creator :)  This is the 5th time(Within this year) Fully learning German would've been useful hah

On topic, I think Mr. Scruff's creations should be featured AND saved, If he wanted it put in than It should....
R.I.P. Mr. Scruff

+1

What about these models, are they lost forever?

The Jagdtiger is allready part of mods ( Heeresgruppe Nord and Blitzkrieg ). The rest was nearly finished. Dont know what had happened to this models... :-\

Ost_Front_Soldat, I agree with you about that the Panzer IV should be in Ostheer. If people think the Ostheer should be featuring "units not in the Wehrmacht or Panzer Elite," the Ostheer might just suck. The Ostheer needs Panzer Iv and Tiger I. Also, Ostheer needs Elefant. It is mentioned in the Kursk map summary and the explanation thing of the ISU 152.

Lord Rommel, does it mean the Jagdtiger is lost?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

I still thikn Pz III or II would fit in but I guess it has to in order to keep balance. -.-

irik wrote:
[...]
Lord Rommel, does it mean the Jagdtiger is lost?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry...i'm writing so wrong that u cant understand me?
MrScruff finished his Jagdtiger before his accident.
The model was skinned and animated and at the moment
a small number of CoH Mods use his model ingame, so the
Jagdtiger isnt lost. But with the rest i cant give u any information.

oh sorry.

So confidential........pretty suspicious..........  8)