Idea of how to implement Germany's allies into the Ostheer

I just thought of something while reading through my WWII books. After the year 1941, the German 3.5 million strong army that invaded the USSR had probably lost around a fifth of its original manpower. To make up for this to continue the attack in '42, Hitler had demanded his allies makeup the losses.

Perhaps this concept could used to bring Germany's allies into the game. Similar to the ability that allows the Soviets to immediately replace it's losses with a fresh squad under the Propaganda Strategy selection, perhaps one of the Ostheer's "doctrine" abilities could have an ability that will remain active longer and require no cost. German losses, like a Grenadier squad for example, would be replaced immediately by maybe two five man squads of Italians, Hungarians, or Romanians (a random selection). No population cost either and the cooldown would be perhaps 90s. These replacement troops will obviously be of low quality but they'll be able to deal with ST conscripts and ingenery.

ScreamingStukas wrote:
Perhaps this concept could used to bring Germany's allies into the game. Similar to the ability that allows the Soviets to immediately replace it's losses with a fresh squad under the Propaganda Strategy selection, perhaps one of the Ostheer's "doctrine" abilities could have an ability that will remain active longer and require no cost. German losses, like a Grenadier squad for example, would be replaced immediately by maybe two five man squads of Italians, Hungarians, or Romanians (a random selection). No population cost either and the cooldown would be perhaps 90s. These replacement troops will obviously be of low quality but they'll be able to deal with ST conscripts and ingenery.

+1.
epic idea. one of the first ideas for a sensefull "foreign" unit.

Good work about this one.

I agree its a good way to bring the other troops in. In comparison to other country's training terms the German Grenadiers where better trained then most. So it could be a good trade off.

I think that could work quite well. I think this can be mixed with the ability to call in specific nationalities, but with a random squad of that nationality.

Perhaps this could be made into one of their three doctrines? A foreign reinforcement doctrine, comprised of calling in support units from Germany's allies.

bloody brilliant! My God man you are smart! this makes good sense +1 lady +1  ;)

This sounds like the perfect solution for the whole foreign troops debacle.

Venoxxis wrote:

ScreamingStukas wrote:
Perhaps this concept could used to bring Germany's allies into the game. Similar to the ability that allows the Soviets to immediately replace it's losses with a fresh squad under the Propaganda Strategy selection, perhaps one of the Ostheer's "doctrine" abilities could have an ability that will remain active longer and require no cost. German losses, like a Grenadier squad for example, would be replaced immediately by maybe two five man squads of Italians, Hungarians, or Romanians (a random selection). No population cost either and the cooldown would be perhaps 90s. These replacement troops will obviously be of low quality but they'll be able to deal with ST conscripts and ingenery.

+1.
epic idea. one of the first ideas for a sensefull "foreign" unit.

Good work about this one.

Thats s shitty idea.
1. In 1944 german army had more man than in 1941 (volksgrenadiers).
2. The biggest German ally on the east Romania has an important part of army group south allmost from day 1 of invasion. They lost a lot of men at stalingrad too.
3. Who needs squads like volksgrenadiers late in the game?
German allies never had equipment to fight russian tanks. Everyone knows how shitty volks are when medium tanks show up.
4. If you want german allies they need to be early in the game. My idea - "Swapped Italian/Romanian/Hungarian Tier I." or/and "Europes support doctrine". Their in my Ostheer concept:
http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=2681.0

Last edited March 9, 2010 at 7:26 AM by Paciat

i think the best allieds to add are the finns and the spaniards,because the finns they had good weapons and experience in the winter war,the spaniards are veterans of the spanish civil war and anti-communist volunteers with german weapons, remember the spanish blue divison was a standard division of the German army,and the main difference was that volunteers believed in this war and had more moral in battle.

hernan wrote:
i think the best allieds to add are the finns and the spaniards

well, they were veterans, so they have no place in a ability like this, do they?

stop this patriotism fanboy posts AGAIN.
Dont spam another topic with something noone really wants to hear anymore.

THIS IS ENOUGH ALREADY.

Take a look of the thread topic, this is a idea how to bring these guys in, it doesnt really care about who guys should be brought in.

  _____
  STOP


The idea brought in here is really a good one. paciat pointed some facts against it out already, and also this is good and is just about the topic.

Last edited March 9, 2010 at 12:32 PM by Venoxxis

Paciat wrote:

Venoxxis wrote:

ScreamingStukas wrote:
Perhaps this concept could used to bring Germany's allies into the game. Similar to the ability that allows the Soviets to immediately replace it's losses with a fresh squad under the Propaganda Strategy selection, perhaps one of the Ostheer's "doctrine" abilities could have an ability that will remain active longer and require no cost. German losses, like a Grenadier squad for example, would be replaced immediately by maybe two five man squads of Italians, Hungarians, or Romanians (a random selection). No population cost either and the cooldown would be perhaps 90s. These replacement troops will obviously be of low quality but they'll be able to deal with ST conscripts and ingenery.

+1.
epic idea. one of the first ideas for a sensefull "foreign" unit.

Good work about this one.

Thats s shitty idea.
1. In 1944 german army had more man than in 1941 (volksgrenadiers).
2. The biggest German ally on the east Romania has an important part of army group south allmost from day 1 of invasion. They lost a lot of men at stalingrad too.
3. Who needs squads like volksgrenadiers late in the game?
German allies never had equipment to fight russian tanks. Everyone knows how shitty volks are when medium tanks show up.
4. If you want german allies they need to be early in the game. My idea - "Swapped Italian/Romanian/Hungarian Tier I." or/and "Europes support doctrine". Their in my Ostheer concept:
http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=2681.0

for one thing calling it shitty is just bad don't be an ass. I think that Volks are a good unit when it comes to fighting against Russia and it is very historically autocrat for Germany to have some weaker and cheaper later units 

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hernan wrote:
i think the best allieds to add are the finns and the spaniards,because the finns they had good weapons and experience in the winter war,the spaniards are veterans of the spanish civil war and anti-communist volunteers with german weapons, remember the spanish blue divison was a standard division of the German army,and the main difference was that volunteers believed in this war and had more moral in battle.

ok now's where some facts are needed. May someone please tell me how many Axis soldiers there was on the Eastern Front in lets say......November 1943. Okay now in May '44 and May '45. oh wait, THE SPANISH BLUE DIVISION WAS DESTROYED IN OCTOBER 1943

Last edited March 9, 2010 at 1:32 PM by ford_prefect

Okay, please stop with those nationalism post...
We are talking about "how to" here isn't it?

I don't think it is good enough, Paciat has mention a lot of stuff so I just want to add: While many of us dislike the SU non-cost ability, it doesn't mean Ostheer should copy that, any ability that has something to do with map wide units I believe should cost ammo. The no pop though is kind of acceptable consider that they are weaker.

However, my vote (shall it available) is going to reward replacement unit.

Thanks

I agree with Ante with the reward units idea it means that those who want to use multi nation Ostheer can and those who want pure germans can as well, giving people choice and more variety in their units (however i think it should just be infantry units not tanks that can be changed)

What if instead of an ability it works more similar to the medic tent the Americans have? through i could see the problem of trying to make it unique instead of just a rip off of the medic mechanic

ford_prefect wrote:

Paciat wrote:

Venoxxis wrote:

ScreamingStukas wrote:
Perhaps this concept could used to bring Germany's allies into the game. Similar to the ability that allows the Soviets to immediately replace it's losses with a fresh squad under the Propaganda Strategy selection, perhaps one of the Ostheer's "doctrine" abilities could have an ability that will remain active longer and require no cost. German losses, like a Grenadier squad for example, would be replaced immediately by maybe two five man squads of Italians, Hungarians, or Romanians (a random selection). No population cost either and the cooldown would be perhaps 90s. These replacement troops will obviously be of low quality but they'll be able to deal with ST conscripts and ingenery.

+1.
epic idea. one of the first ideas for a sensefull "foreign" unit.

Good work about this one.

Thats s shitty idea.
1. In 1944 german army had more man than in 1941 (volksgrenadiers).
2. The biggest German ally on the east Romania has an important part of army group south allmost from day 1 of invasion. They lost a lot of men at stalingrad too.
3. Who needs squads like volksgrenadiers late in the game?
German allies never had equipment to fight russian tanks. Everyone knows how shitty volks are when medium tanks show up.
4. If you want german allies they need to be early in the game. My idea - "Swapped Italian/Romanian/Hungarian Tier I." or/and "Europes support doctrine". Their in my Ostheer concept:
http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=2681.0

for one thing calling it shitty is just bad don't be an ass. I think that Volks are a good unit when it comes to fighting against Russia and it is very historically autocrat for Germany to have some weaker and cheaper later units 

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hernan wrote:
i think the best allieds to add are the finns and the spaniards,because the finns they had good weapons and experience in the winter war,the spaniards are veterans of the spanish civil war and anti-communist volunteers with german weapons, remember the spanish blue divison was a standard division of the German army,and the main difference was that volunteers believed in this war and had more moral in battle.

ok now's where some facts are needed. May someone please tell me how many Axis soldiers there was on the Eastern Front in lets say......November 1943. Okay now in May '44 and May '45. oh wait, THE SPANISH BLUE DIVISION WAS DESTROYED IN OCTOBER 1943

the spanish blue divison destroyed in 1943??????lol,please read books and not post bullshit,not say things against Spanish and less if they lie,in 1943 the blue division lost 3,000 men but stoped a soviet offensive causing 14,000 casualties to Russians but the dvision was never destroyed.
in 1944 the spanish combat in blue legion.
im 1945 the spanish combat in the wallonien ss and einzatgruppen ezquerra in berlin.

please ford_prefect post real things next time.

Last edited March 9, 2010 at 2:41 PM by hernan cortes

This isn't a battle over the Blue Division, this is how to implement the Blue Division, or the Romanians, or anybody else into the game. Decisions on who gets in should be a bit later, after the devs have decided upon how they get in.

QuoteFranco initiated negotiations in the spring of 1943 and gave an order of withdrawal on October 10.

Well. 1943 the blue Division was ordered back to spain.
Okay. A number of spanish soldiers entered the Waffen-SS but formal the division had stop to exist in October 1943 and that is a fact. 

But just a small note:
Names like "blue division" or "division azul" or "romanian/hungarian conscripts" would never appear in the vanilla CoH. Think of the british troops; they are called canadian or polish soldiers? No! So i think a Ostheer could not use such a "linking name" ;)

Last edited March 9, 2010 at 2:44 PM by Lord Rommel

Yes of course I'm with Lord Rommel here. No names are needed when always is a way to make all content just calling a unit "International reinforcements" or "European campaign whatever" or some like that I've read before in a concept  anywehre in other treads.

Just please Damn God don't try to start a historical/nationalism discussion when it seems that all we have in common that axis-non german troops need to be represented in the ostheer.

When you call this reinforcements you can imagine easily they come from Romania, Spain or whatever because it was true in history and they are going to be there in the vanilla coh (developers don't kick me to say that, but I have the strong feeling that you are going to implement that xD).

So then argue about productive things like many others do exposing your ideas and concepts for Ostheer related on HOW we do it.

hernan wrote:

ford_prefect wrote:

Paciat wrote:

Venoxxis wrote:

ScreamingStukas wrote:
Perhaps this concept could used to bring Germany's allies into the game. Similar to the ability that allows the Soviets to immediately replace it's losses with a fresh squad under the Propaganda Strategy selection, perhaps one of the Ostheer's "doctrine" abilities could have an ability that will remain active longer and require no cost. German losses, like a Grenadier squad for example, would be replaced immediately by maybe two five man squads of Italians, Hungarians, or Romanians (a random selection). No population cost either and the cooldown would be perhaps 90s. These replacement troops will obviously be of low quality but they'll be able to deal with ST conscripts and ingenery.

+1.
epic idea. one of the first ideas for a sensefull "foreign" unit.

Good work about this one.

Thats s shitty idea.
1. In 1944 german army had more man than in 1941 (volksgrenadiers).
2. The biggest German ally on the east Romania has an important part of army group south allmost from day 1 of invasion. They lost a lot of men at stalingrad too.
3. Who needs squads like volksgrenadiers late in the game?
German allies never had equipment to fight russian tanks. Everyone knows how shitty volks are when medium tanks show up.
4. If you want german allies they need to be early in the game. My idea - "Swapped Italian/Romanian/Hungarian Tier I." or/and "Europes support doctrine". Their in my Ostheer concept:
http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=2681.0

for one thing calling it shitty is just bad don't be an ass. I think that Volks are a good unit when it comes to fighting against Russia and it is very historically autocrat for Germany to have some weaker and cheaper later units 

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Post Merge: [time]1268141564[/time]

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hernan wrote:
i think the best allieds to add are the finns and the spaniards,because the finns they had good weapons and experience in the winter war,the spaniards are veterans of the spanish civil war and anti-communist volunteers with german weapons, remember the spanish blue divison was a standard division of the German army,and the main difference was that volunteers believed in this war and had more moral in battle.

ok now's where some facts are needed. May someone please tell me how many Axis soldiers there was on the Eastern Front in lets say......November 1943. Okay now in May '44 and May '45. oh wait, THE SPANISH BLUE DIVISION WAS DESTROYED IN OCTOBER 1943

the spanish blue divison destroyed in 1943??????lol,please read books and not post bullshit,not say things against Spanish and less if they lie,in 1943 the blue division lost 3,000 men but stoped a soviet offensive causing 14,000 casualties to Russians but the dvision was never destroyed.
in 1944 the spanish combat in blue legion.
im 1945 the spanish combat in the wallonien ss and einzatgruppen ezquerra in berlin.

please ford_prefect post real things next time.

erm sorry but where are your facts as well?
"In Oct 1943 Spain changed its status in the war from nonbelligerence to neutrality, disbanding the Blue Divison"
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=3849
ahhh I see the Spanische Legion well that too was finally disbanded 15 Mar 1944.
"according to some sources the Germans managed to recruit an additional 250 Spaniards after the Blue Division was disbanded until the Allied landings in Normandy."
so your telling me you want out of the whole eastern front the 250 Spaniards to be shown??

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http://www.feldgrau.com/InfDiv.php?ID=163
here is another look it up yourself  ;)

# Campaigns

# Eastern Front 1941-1943

# Fate

# Disbanded in Fall of 1943 and troops largely sent back to Spain

ford_prefect,please ignore me,i respect yours post, because you do not respect the mine.

If it bothers you that the Spanish will fight inside the heer or hate spain no is my problem ok,stop trolling about spanish.

why not say where you are?

lol sorry but facts are just facts ;)
we were on the subject of the countries this foreign thing would allow. 250 Spaniards on the whole Eastern Front is not much. I believe that the way that Stuka makes a lot of sense

ford_prefect wrote:
250 Spaniards on the whole Eastern Front is not much.

just because it was called the 250 infanterie-division, it didnt mean it had only 250 soldiers, specially since they got ten times that number in war merit crosses

so your facts, i am asking for sources about them

http://www.feldgrau.com/InfDiv.php?ID=163
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=3849
I already posted it but here you go. (one of my last post had these two things in it) also thank you for catching me there I meant to say "according to some sources the Germans managed to recruit an additional 250 Spaniards after the Blue Division was disbanded until the Allied landings in Normandy."
that's a quote from one of the sources.

Might I suggest creating a thread to argue over who will be shown as a non-German reinforcement for the Ostheer? Much better than cluttering up a thread with a great idea. Besides, I fear the wrath of the mods.

ford_prefect wrote:

Paciat wrote:

Venoxxis wrote:

ScreamingStukas wrote:
Perhaps this concept could used to bring Germany's allies into the game. Similar to the ability that allows the Soviets to immediately replace it's losses with a fresh squad under the Propaganda Strategy selection, perhaps one of the Ostheer's "doctrine" abilities could have an ability that will remain active longer and require no cost. German losses, like a Grenadier squad for example, would be replaced immediately by maybe two five man squads of Italians, Hungarians, or Romanians (a random selection). No population cost either and the cooldown would be perhaps 90s. These replacement troops will obviously be of low quality but they'll be able to deal with ST conscripts and ingenery.

+1.
epic idea. one of the first ideas for a sensefull "foreign" unit.

Good work about this one.

Thats s shitty idea.
1. In 1944 german army had more man than in 1941 (volksgrenadiers).
2. The biggest German ally on the east Romania has an important part of army group south allmost from day 1 of invasion. They lost a lot of men at stalingrad too.
3. Who needs squads like volksgrenadiers late in the game?
German allies never had equipment to fight russian tanks. Everyone knows how shitty volks are when medium tanks show up.
4. If you want german allies they need to be early in the game. My idea - "Swapped Italian/Romanian/Hungarian Tier I." or/and "Europes support doctrine". Their in my Ostheer concept:
http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=2681.0

for one thing calling it shitty is just bad don't be an ass. I think that Volks are a good unit when it comes to fighting against Russia and it is very historically autocrat for Germany to have some weaker and cheaper later units 

Ok, sory about the shit.

But how can you say that Volks are good vs PPSH strelky or T-34 (mid game) or enen constripts in a house (defending something allmost from fte beggining of the game). The only thing they are good at in mid or late game is taking Soviet equipment (AT guns and mortars). They even cap slower than grenadieres.

"And it is very historically autocrat for Germany to have some weaker and cheaper" early "units"! Romania was allways supporting Germany... untill they changed sides in "late game".

Last edited March 10, 2010 at 7:38 AM by Paciat

ford_prefect wrote:
I meant to say "according to some sources the Germans managed to recruit an additional 250 Spaniards after the Blue Division was disbanded until the Allied landings in Normandy."
that's a quote from one of the sources.

oh, ok then, never mind

ford_prefect wrote:
http://www.feldgrau.com/InfDiv.php?ID=163
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=3849
I already posted it but here you go. (one of my last post had these two things in it) also thank you for catching me there I meant to say "according to some sources the Germans managed to recruit an additional 250 Spaniards after the Blue Division was disbanded until the Allied landings in Normandy."
that's a quote from one of the sources.

A little clarification, maybe that is how many were recruited, but the Blue Legion was left when the Division departed and had 2,500 members.  That too was pulled later,with the die hards staying behind and fighting with Nordland and another SS Company which did some fighting in the battle of the Bulge.

http://250skicompany.webs.com/history.htm

Lord wrote:

QuoteFranco initiated negotiations in the spring of 1943 and gave an order of withdrawal on October 10.

Well. 1943 the blue Division was ordered back to spain.
Okay. A number of spanish soldiers entered the Waffen-SS but formal the division had stop to exist in October 1943 and that is a fact. 

But just a small note:
Names like "blue division" or "division azul" or "romanian/hungarian conscripts" would never appear in the vanilla CoH. Think of the british troops; they are called canadian or polish soldiers? No! So i think a Ostheer could not use such a "linking name" ;)

I think that in one level in the British campaign, there's a unit called "Canadian Rifles" than even talk like Cananadians.

HyperSniper999 wrote:

Lord wrote:
Names like "blue division" or "division azul" or "romanian/hungarian conscripts" would never appear in the vanilla CoH. Think of the british troops; they are called canadian or polish soldiers? No! So i think a Ostheer could not use such a "linking name" ;)

I think that in one level in the British campaign, there's a unit called "Canadian Rifles" than even talk like Cananadians.

There is no British fraction. Theres only a Commonwealth fraction.

Last edited June 16, 2010 at 7:53 PM by Paciat

Paciat wrote:

HyperSniper999 wrote:

Lord wrote:
Names like "blue division" or "division azul" or "romanian/hungarian conscripts" would never appear in the vanilla CoH. Think of the british troops; they are called canadian or polish soldiers? No! So i think a Ostheer could not use such a "linking name" ;)

I think that in one level in the British campaign, there's a unit called "Canadian Rifles" than even talk like Cananadians.

There is no British fraction. Theres only a Commonwealth fraction.

even then no single unit is named to be from a certain part of the british commonwealth.

Versedhorison wrote:

Paciat wrote:

HyperSniper999 wrote:

Lord wrote:
Names like "blue division" or "division azul" or "romanian/hungarian conscripts" would never appear in the vanilla CoH. Think of the british troops; they are called canadian or polish soldiers? No! So i think a Ostheer could not use such a "linking name" ;)

I think that in one level in the British campaign, there's a unit called "Canadian Rifles" than even talk like Cananadians.

There is no British fraction. Theres only a Commonwealth fraction.

even then no single unit is named to be from a certain part of the british commonwealth.

Becouse all commonwealth used same equipment.

IMO there should be a whole early foreign Tier. Not Romanian, not Hungarian, not Italian, not Finnish but foreign. (Basic infantry, 47mm AT gun, Scout car).
It shouldnt be as important as wehrmacht tier I.

Last edited June 16, 2010 at 10:29 PM by Paciat

I had a concept for this problem.

The "Allies support center" and in the building you can build the major allies nation infantry units (one type per nation) and only 1 or 2 unlocked when you chose doctrinal tree(This is auto unlocked when select the tree)

version 2:

You can build "Allies Support Center" and after you can uppgrade allies support inf. div.

1. uppgrade: "Karpatian support"
this uppgrade including Romanians, Hungarians, Slovakians.
2. uppgarde: "Western support"
this uppgrade including Italians, Spanish, French.
3. uppgrade: "Northern support"
this uppgrade including Skandinavians

-The units dont have specific name like "SS Panzer-Grenadier Division Hunyadi". All unit in this uppgrades has same name like in the russian faction("Partisan" not Yugoslavian or Russian just only partisan).

Last edited June 17, 2010 at 7:41 AM by PetikeHUN1984

Paciat wrote:

HyperSniper999 wrote:

Lord wrote:
Names like "blue division" or "division azul" or "romanian/hungarian conscripts" would never appear in the vanilla CoH. Think of the british troops; they are called canadian or polish soldiers? No! So i think a Ostheer could not use such a "linking name" ;)

I think that in one level in the British campaign, there's a unit called "Canadian Rifles" than even talk like Cananadians.

There is no British fraction. Theres only a Commonwealth fraction.

Well their symbol is the Union Jack and nothing else, so I don't know. I always thought they were solely British and Canadian.
But I like Petike's idea, that way units are still regional with some national identification but not down to specifics. Although it'd be awkward with a mixed Spanish-French-Italian squad and the like. Almost sounds like movie with a bunch of guys who don't know each other getting seperated from their units and stumbling across one another.

Last edited June 18, 2010 at 9:16 PM by HyperSniper999

Yes, they only use the union jack. However, if you listen to certain voices, you'll hear that some sound plainly English (riflemen and officers), others sound Scottish or Welsh (or northern English) (Sappers), others, like the priests, are Canadian.

So yes, they are called the British, and they only use the British flag, but they do use troops from various parts of the commonwealth.

Cheers

Man this thread went south fast.  I actually like the idea, so keep this thread on-topic, please.  ;)