[1.04] Terror Doctine forced retreat

Dear dev's
Is the problem regarding the Wehrmacht's terror doctrine ability 'forced retreat' being fixed in patch 1.05? or has this problem not been figured out yet?

Cheers

Last edited April 21, 2010 at 10:07 PM by BurroDiablo

same question
i would love to use this on the f******* mob of
anti-tank wielding troops that apears in many 2v2s and 3v3s i played. 2 soviet roll with engenerys and one gets man VS tanks
and the all of the sudden storms with 8 or more squads
But my allmigthy Panzer Elite Stg 44 troops owned the ****faces 8) :o

Forced retreat/prop war doesn't work at the moment(yes we know its VERY annoying) because the soviets have no retreat function to be affected by it.

We've been looking into giving it a different function  to affect the soviets but so far our coders have not managed it.

I've recently passed them some information that might allow us to do this but, I've not heard anything as yet.

So, unfortunatelly it may be that those abilities remain gimped  vs Soviets :'(

Why not red pin them? If they had a command squad though how would that work?

Also since the Wehrmacht officer has the same ability of forced retreat he will need to be fixed too.

SauerKRAUT wrote:
Why not red pin them? If they had a command squad though how would that work?

I actually thought about this. It would be a good equivilent imo.

yes, but a command squad would counter that and make it useless  :(

ya that was why it was in question marks, it might get a little complex but what about a penalty if they try to unpin using the command squad like a guy from each squad gets shot to restore order? Have no clue if that is even possible..

i think pinning them red would be fine
Imagine the scenario: soviets run up to your MG-42(s)
the get pinned...officer fires them up...propaganda pins them again...and then the get all eaten by charging flamer pios or Volks while they are pinned.
And when you have faceraped the Soviet Blob that way, you take the whole map and then win the game 8)

Pauly3 wrote:
i think pinning them red would be fine
Imagine the scenario: soviets run up to your MG-42(s)
the get pinned...officer fires them up...propaganda pins them again...and then the get all eaten by charging flamer pios or Volks while they are pinned.
And when you have faceraped the Soviet Blob that way, you take the whole map and then win the game 8)

Bingo. That would definitely hurt us Soviets. We would be wishing that we could retreat by the time we see the flame pios...

yeah pinning them red WOULD be a great idea if the russians wouldn´t have so many suppression-breaking abillitys

they have suppression breaking abilities because they can't retreat :P.

though red pinning them is a nice alternative.

-Narizna

I did notice that players tend to forget to build a COmmand Squad in long games particularly when they go armor, it would work rather well

right,

i build a command squad, when it dies i forget to build it again.

-Narizna

I make the command squad a priority. It definitely helps to pick up the slack of my early game infantry. It even helps in late game... ;D

what if the terror doc's ability unbreakably pins the russians. This might be a wee bit OP but if it is only like a 8 second unbreakable pin and then it is breakable by CS it might work.

Pauly3 wrote:
i think pinning them red would be fine
Imagine the scenario: soviets run up to your MG-42(s)
the get pinned...officer fires them up...propaganda pins them again...and then the get all eaten by charging flamer pios or Volks while they are pinned.
And when you have faceraped the Soviet Blob that way, you take the whole map and then win the game 8)

Nice idea. Theres allways the light arti barrage to "save" youre troops from mg suppresion.
But how would the unsurpassable gourds get pinned?

they can be suppressed, just like the KCH but it takes a LOT of bullets

look in there description hg it says they are unsupressable.

so do KCH....

Keep in mind here that "unsuppressable" pertains to normal circumstances.  ;)

hgghg4 wrote:
so do KCH....

KCH description

QuoteInfantry who showed great bravery and tactical skill were awarded with the Knight's Cross. Experienced, tough, armed with assault rifles, Knight’s Cross Holders are capable of taking on many times their number in regular infantry, making them a very effective anti-infantry squad.

where does it say that they are unsupressable?

Guards description

QuoteGuards are the elite, feeling no remorse and no regret. Bearing the newest SVT-40 weaponry, they excel at long range combat, and are well equipped with anti-infantry and anti-tank grenades to get up close and personal. Guards have seen the horrors of war in all its forms and know no more fear. They are unsupressable.

any way this is off topic now sry.

Last edited March 12, 2010 at 7:15 PM by nomad52

the KCH by pretty much any means short of 4 MG42s captured or a Strafe are unsuppressable, while in their troop description they are not stated as unsuppressable they might as well be...


Generally that is the only thing airborne can do against a 4 squad group of vet 3 KCH when they blob... strafe and then attempt to kill before the suppression wears off or retreat is given

yes but there is a difference KCH are hard to suppress guards are unsuppressable.

Could have sworn that I saw a suppressed Guard Squad :-/ maybe it was a Strelky that I mixed up.... idk MUST TEST!!! will do it tomorrow

It even says in the tips they are unsuppresable period

On topic
I don't think is such a big problem, that the Force retreat doesn't work. Yes it would be better if it did, but it is easy for WM to use the munition other ways. So in conclusion, don't delay the pacth to long if you can't find a solution. People including myself must just learn to live with it.

SavageWorld wrote:
On topic
I don't think is such a big problem, that the Force retreat doesn't work. Yes it would be better if it did, but it is easy for WM to use the munition other ways. So in conclusion, don't delay the pacth to long if you can't find a solution. People including myself must just learn to live with it.

that's not the point, it's about having a command point ability that doesn't work vs red army

SauerKRAUT wrote:
It even says in the tips they are unsuppresable period

Don't believe everything you read.

I have also seen guards be suppressed, although it takes alot to do it. I imagine the devs just gave them a massive suppression threshold and recovery to make them seem unsuppressable, but things like arty shells deal a whole lot of suppression at once rather than MG42s which provide a build up of suppression. This could cause the squad to be briefly suppressed after impact but would wear off quickly due to the fast recovery. KCH are similar to this, but obviously not quite as extreme as guards.

I thought that was the whole point.....that russians dont retreat. Thus, forced retreat doesnt work on the russians.

comrade2012 wrote:
I thought that was the whole point.....that russians dont retreat. Thus, forced retreat doesnt work on the russians.

That is what is currently occurring but that is poor balance to have an ability in your command tree that does nothing, especially on the KT side where forced retreat is your only tool until you get the tank. Would you be happy if you went SE but booby traps only affected British troops and not Americans? Would you ever go that side of the tree against amis? Probably not but every doc should be somewhat effective against the others.

Is it possible to code the forced retreat to have a separate effect on the Russians from the other factions? If not it might be better to just go with suppression so it doesn't affect the balance for the others because they retreat anyway. Might that also solve the force retreat glitch where units are sometimes unaffected?

i don't know wether this is possible or not. but as far as i know reward units were successfully tested in-game. maybe it would be possible to create a new ability for the wehrmacht that can be chosen to replace the "propaganda war" (force retreat) and (if possible) the ability of the german officer as well. i don't have an idea for such an ability yet, but i was just wondering if this is possible. this way players who play eastern front vs. british/US players or those who want to keep the original coh factions could keep the doctrine as it is and all the others can replace the useless ability with one that works.

@ kingtiger
I have a bit of knowledge about modding and I believe that isnt possible.


Propaganda ability should yellow pin down the soviet soldiers and slow down the movement of them to half kind of like the PE g43 ability for a small duration.

The pin is affected by fireup and suppression breaking abilities but the movement reduction isnt so the free commander abilities of the soviets are not a -waste their 100Mun button-

Of course all this wouldnt affect the other allied players who would just normally retreat like they always did.

Last edited April 13, 2010 at 8:30 PM by Jozz

well, instead of the terror doctrine wasting their munitions on forced retreat, use it on firestorm. Firestorm is way more effective against infantry anyway, and those infantry are killed and cant come back.

However, you could make it to where when russians are forced to retreat they could be shot by commissars when they return to the base. That would be really authentic

Firestorm is 60 more muni but thats a drop in a bucket still it is not instant such as forced retreat although the sovies cant retreat out of the way fast enough. Still the shot by commissar thing would make more sense if they were shot on the spot.

Instead of surpressing, if possible, you can make the sovs Run back like a few screens without the pe guy contolling them.

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I mean wher

As a dev stated, the force retreat ability works  ;D

Last edited April 21, 2010 at 10:06 PM by BurroDiablo