ME 262

Just to see would anyone would like to see the ME 262 as a doctrine ability? The only way's I could see it being used as a ground attack call in or more likely as an air superiority fighter that shoots down any other enemy planes that come on the map while the ability is active. Just tossing some idea's up though I'd personally like to see the legendary jet fighter in the game.

There was a ground attack variant of the Me-262, but i doubt it saw any action on the Eastern front. :(

Some ME 262 flow ground attacks during the last period of the battle of berlin. BUT this attacks were flow against supply convoys and not combat units.

But the number is so low that i think this plane WONT REPRESENT THE HOLE EASTERN FRONT. 

262's are fun, but the ground-attack role is already overused in EF.  As for air to air, the argument for that is in the other thread.

Lord wrote:
But the number is so low that i think this plane WONT REPRESENT THE HOLE EASTERN FRONT. 

Just like a dozen other units and abilities that already exist in this game.  Let it go.

Well; which units?
Perhaps the Bergetiger because this unit were just used at Italy and not at the western front.
The Geschützwagen? Hm; thats a good representing unit for the "iimprovised" weapon systems - a Marder I ;)
Okay...the Hotchkiss is a strange idea.
But all in all the units fit at the western front.

The Pershing...the Ostwind, the Berge

Although It was ordered by Hitler to be a ground attack aircraft it was designed for and performed brilliantly at interception. Personally I would like to see this aircraft in the game with the Ostheer than anything else that is being discussed at this point.

Chancellor wrote:
The Pershing...the Ostwind, the Berge

The Pershing was needed for balance.

Every army has medics but PE is vechicle based so it has a Bergetiger. Dont know why its not a Bergepanther. Maybe PE needed a slower vechicle that cant squish so easiely.

The Ostwind represents all mobile AA guns. At least it did in vanilla coh. PE needed their own mobile AA gun for luftwaffe.

Me-262 is not needed and its too fast. Ju-87 will do just right. The sound of Ju-87 will be great too.

Last edited February 25, 2010 at 9:27 AM by Paciat

Paciat wrote:
Me-262 is not needed and its too fast. Ju-87 will do just right. The sound of Ju-87 will be great too.

+1

ju-87 was well known and feared on the eastern front, it's the best option for a ground attack plane.
including me-262 would be the same as including sturmtiger/jagdtiger and that was discussed often enough  >:(

P 47 thunderbolt is +- 100km/h slower then Me 262 so wtf with the speed? also those speeds were in the max altitude...
and Ju-87 was very good when Germany attack Poland or France but in battle of the Britain it was easy target as well as on eastern front...

I think a interception type ability would be great. Also there was only 1 bergetiger ever found with no official German records of the speculated production or modifications at all. They do not even think is was for tank recovery because the boom was far to weak to pull (much less lift) any tank or even APC's. In this case the Russians should get Odessa tanks *sarcasm*! Jury rigged tractors with boiler plate for armor and any gun they could find! They were more to scare than anything, equally as useless. Only 40 or so ostwinds were ever made as well, I have gone through more than existed in one game before XD. By god we are getting off ITT.

GamblerSK wrote:
P 47 thunderbolt is +- 100km/h slower then Me 262 so wtf with the speed? also those speeds were in the max altitude...
and Ju-87 was very good when Germany attack Poland or France but in battle of the Britain it was easy target as well as on eastern front...

Easy target? Think a plane wasnt never an easy target during the war ( no auto-aiming weapons? ) ;) When russians had no own airsupport they had to confided in their anti-air-gun-protection-shield ( a lot of bullets in the air because where the bullets are there is no plane ;) ).
When both defending systems werent available then StuKas and other ground-attacking weapons could make a
"massacre" under the enemy.

Well, the Ju87 it was an easier target than, say, a Me109, because it was larger, less manouverable and more 'desirable' to shoot down.

Hey man!
Thats not fair to compare a "flying point-artillery" with a "fast air racer"  ;D ;D ;)

I wanted to underline that Ju 87 wasnt only a clay pigeon to shoot down and for me the symbolical value of the JU 87 is important.

Or better: Ju 87 is more representing an Ostheer than a ME 262.

Last edited February 25, 2010 at 5:37 PM by Lord Rommel

I totally agree with you actually. Ju87 is also something significantly different from the boring ground-attack planes which have been used in every CoH faction.

if its shot down on its dive... it becomes  a bomb!

By the end of the war the Stuka was a flying death trap, VERY slow. It is defiantly MUCH better at representing the EF than ME-262 but you would not get away with using the P-47 model so easily with the gull wings and elongated canopy. There are also 2 different configurations the Stuka could fill, that of a bomber and infantry strafer like the IL-2, or a tank killer more akin to the Lutfwaffle's Henschel and I don't know how much the devs want to avoid mirroring other things.

Stuka was a vertical dive bomber, meaning you wouldn't see it on screen really unless you did the variant with the 37mm AT guns...even then it would dive vertically to hit the top of tanks
For the type of bombing runs seen in COH you'd ideally need the FW_190A-8 which replaced effectively the Ju-87(although they were still used because the soviets didn't really challenge the Luftwaffe until after the battle of Kursk).
Ju-87s only ever operated effectively under total air superiority...that's something only really seen at in 41-42.

I'm by far in favor of an Me 262 as it will look cooler and is in line with the 'Nazi miracle weapons' like KT etc. Also contrasts with all the other aircraft used by other factions for a more unique feeling. 

Last edited February 25, 2010 at 5:51 PM by Zerstörer

StuKa as "MG run"..
well; the Ju 87 were build as a fyling point artillery
against "hard" targets and not as infantryhunter.
The "mainchange" between the early StuKas and the
"latewar" StuKas is that the Ju 87 changed from
"artillery plane" to a "battleplane" - or other: form the
70° attacking downfall with bombs to an version
with "area effect" and/or "automatic weapons".

Yes Destroyer, uniqueness is what I am really looking for in the end but even a dive bombing mechanic that was harder too/impossible too shoot down and the Jericho sirens would be awesome. Fun fact though, there was one squadron on the EF that was equipped completely with ME-262s. The best part? They were Imperial Russia Loyalists and flew under the white red and blue standard of it against the Red army!

An Russian air formation with ME 262???
That is absolutely NEW for me ::)
Sounds like one of those typical lies by one of this
"serious internet pages"  ;D

Noper history channel, had unit pictures and everything XD. it was one about early jets I think, ille find the source for you when I get off from work.

as was said it was slow, the enemy pilot could flight from down to top and fire on stukas underbody or from the side without of being hurt
it was "downloaded" from Battle of the Britain because Huricanes and Spitfires was killing it easily, on the eastern front was used as Ju 87 D but until 1942 when Russians use better planes...
but i agree Ju 87 better repsresents German army because of the good help to infantry on the first years of the war it was great composition with blitzkrieg tactics...

If people like the idea of both planes they could be both used as different doctrine abilities either in the same or different doctrines.

maybe have the ME262 being a second or third doctrine choice that acts like sector artiller but for the whole map for 30 or 60 seconds that shoots down any American fighters, any British gliders landing or Soviet planes too. I think though ME262 should have a slightly long recharge time as they were rare but hey whatever balance is key in RTS games. Also it would have to be fast and sound like a real jet screaming across the battlefield.

Also I'm keen to see a stuka get into this game as well maybe being a last doctrine choice dropping in a single large bomb on a position or a squadron dropping in three or so bombs along a lane like with the American bombing run (maybe it would help animation to reuse that). Plus the sirens would have to sound cool.

Personally I'd really Like to see both in with the Ostheer though if I had to choose It would be the jet fighter.

What would the difference be? Itll just fly through the map faster.........

That's not the point we are talking more about it shooting down planes and no point either way? The germans only have one plane at this point in COH and it does something the ME262 was never even considered for.