Ostheer?

Ostheer.
I decided to try and replicate just the German army from 41-43 and then have a massive switch to represent late war.
  This is a fairly basic overview especially once into the later stages.

Starts with increased ammunition and fuel stockpiles.

HQ,
Allows construction of Pioneers,Grenadiers,Zundapp Ks 750 , Brucken lager II & SDKFZ 247
Pioneers: 3 man team similar to that of the American engineers. Simple construction unit with Mp40's can plant two different form of mines AT only (only explodes when vehicles pass over) and AP mines (detonated by all unit but does extreme damage to infantry and next to no damage to vehicles) .Normal pio upgrades flame,minesweeper. Also normal defensive structures excluding OP's and bunkers.
After building 4 has been reached can construct, Panzerturm, MG bunkers, roadblocks, trench's.

Grenadiers: Yup they are your base grenadiers really nothing special besides a squad size bump to 5 men and if possible the tank/light vehicle rider ability. And they take no damage if the vehicle they are in/on is destroyed ( don't remember if this is standard or not. or if it is possible.) Cannot not build anything.

Zundapp Ks 750, Fast motor bike with the overdrive ability for free, can capture points has no armaments.

Brucken Lager II. I don't know if this unit is even feasible but it would be a bridge construction unit allowing you to set up a bridge any where on the map. Based on a PZ2 chassis no weapons.

SDKFZ 247 unarmed infantry transport, relies on the infantry inside for offensive support. Allows reinforcement and  infantry can capture points from inside.

8.8 cm Flak 36 After buildings 1-3 are constructed a carrage mounted 88 can be built. Being carrage mounted allows it to be pushed like a normal AT gun. It never needs to “setup” it could fire from the carrage (if setup would be possible that would be great). Has the ambush/spotter abilities. (maybe doctrine but then again this build might need some better AT till building 4 is reached)

Research: OKH support (Tier) Allows construction of buildings 2&3. Whatever cost would work.

Special abilities
Resource manipulation. Allows you to convert resource A into B or C ,Or C into A or B etc Ex trade 200 munitions for a 200 fuel.

Medics and mechanics on site: heals/repairs all units and buildings with in starting sector. No cost but does a have a limit to how many times per session.

Bolshevik weakness: a step towards creating heavy tanks.

First blood: first veterancy upgrade


Building 2 (I don't know the name)
Allows the construction of, Schwere Infanterie, Pz1, Pz2 flamingo, Austro Daimler Adgz, Sdkfz 10 , SPW u304

Schwere Infanterie: Heavy infantry of the Reich armed with Mp41's can be given mg34 immediately and can be given panzershreck after 3rd building. They are tougher than grenadiers and are more resistant to suppression.
(special abilities mentioned for the grenadiers would also be nice on these as well).

Pz1 Small fairly cheap light tank equivalent in main gun and armor to a Russian t70 but the pz1 has machine guns. Comes with the smoke screen ability.

Pz2 Flamingo another small tank this one has 2 hull mounted flamethrowers only capable of spewing fire in a 180 degree forward arc. 1 turret mounted mg as well.

Austro-Daimler ADGZ light vehicle used in a primarily anti-partisan role equip ed with a 20 mm cannon and 3 Mg's 2 hull mounted one on the turret, has no rear so it is capable of driving either direction at top speed and has the same armor on all sides. Allows reinforcement.

Halftrack: normal Track that can be upgraded in to either:
Sd kfz10 50mm AT halftrack: cloak and overdrive abilities
SPW U304 flak 38 halftrack: mounted 2cm AA gun this unit is can be devastating to infantry and very light vehicles/aircraft.

Pz mortar 35t, Mortar carrier on a Pz35t chassis

Medic tank (has a really long German name), Pz2 with medical supplies, gathers wounded from battlefield and heals nearby infantry. Again pretty straight forward

Special Abilities:
Fire Support. Constructs a 21cm rocket battery inside of building 2 allowing it to fire rockets. Basicly 3 nebelwerfers in a building with increased range. should probably be immune to counterbattery fire or maybe not.

Invasion stockpiles: Decreases the munitions cost of abilities and the fuel cost of units.(Doctrinal?)

Sweep the streets: allows grenadiers to be upgraded with mp40's and a flamethrower also gives the fired up ability.

They have stopped us? Another step towards getting heavy tanks.

Battle hardened: Second lvl of veterancy


Building 3 (final building)
Allows construction of Pz3H, PZ3M

PZ3 H, lighter medium tank with a 50mm main gun & 2 MG's

PZ3 M, same as H except it has a 75 mm main gun and 3 Mg;s



Special Abilities:
Field conversions: Both Pz3 models can be converted (unit upgrade) into a Sturmgeshutz III, fixed gun tank hunter (75mm 1 MG) with ambush, tread breaker and a spotter/gun sighted ability (locking down) increasing firing range, and accuracy  but decreasing rate of fire.

Stuka support: Call in a stuka to hunt a single enemy vehicle until it is destroyed. (doctrinal?)

Gustav is here: request a single round from Gustav to be fired.(doctrinal?)

We must use their equipment! Gives access to the Kv1, Captured Russian heavy, medium tank fires a 75mm main gun and 4 machine guns. Slow movement speed. 2 on map. Also this is another step towards calling in heavy tanks.

They have arrived! Requires: Bolshevik weakness, They have stopped us and We must use their equipment. Allows the creation of building 4.

Horrors of war: 3rd lvl of Veterancy

Building 4.
Allows the construction of Wespe, Pz4, Panther, Tiger, Nashorn,ferdinand and sturmtiger.

Wespe. 105 mm mobile artillery piece with 1 mg

Pz4. Its a pz4! Wooooo!

Panther again nothing special about this

Tiger. Yes a recruitable tiger (2 per game)

Nashorn. Fast  Lighly armored 88mm tank hunter, very large FOW removal, very long range, ambush. 1 coaxial mg

Ferdinand. Slow. An adaptation  of a tiger into a fixed gun tank hunter. Same specials as the nashorn. 2 Front mounted machine guns (1 on map more likely doctrinal than here)

Sturm Tiger. Slow. Another Adaptation of a tiger this time mounted with a 380mm cannon used to clear buildings and other pesky objects out of the way. Highly effective against infantry. (1 per game more likely doctrinal than here)

Special Abilities.
Man the Defenses! Requires all three lvls of veterancy allows (light/medium) armor to hulldown and infantry to build trenches. (maybe better in a doctrine)

Give them nothing! Allows infantry to boobytrap points and buildings (again might be better in a doctrine)




I think one doctrine would be something like
Crusade against bolshevism
Left.
Finish weapons- infantry can now be upgraded with the suomi m-31 submachine gun.
Romanian reserves- calls in a romanian infantry unit 8 men 2 AT rifles 5 rifles 1 crappy “sniper”, AT grenades.
Italian Armor-Calls in 3 italian medium tanks.
Right
Ruthless-gives infantry increased accuracy against pinned an suppresed units
Push on!- slightly increases infantries resistance to suppression
more men!-+1 squad size


Can't think of any more at the moment.

I think there would be basicly two ways to play this build either try and win quick using your very good start units or try and hold on long enough to get the final building up and running and then winning with your very good late game units. This build would be weak mid game when the soviets are bring t34's and the americans are bringing shermans you would only be able to field AT guns and light2light medium tanks.



All constructive suggestions are welcome. I will try to modify things if you give me some kind of an idea what you think would be a better way of doing things if I think that it wouldn't throw off the "feel" to much.

Last edited February 24, 2010 at 1:33 AM by nomad52

Buildable storms, are you kidding me? OP much?

also

200 manpower for a 200 fuel.


ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? if i change mp into anything it needs to be a 3-1 ratio cause mp is obviously way more comment hen ammmo or fuel.

Alright calm down.

Building storms is for the feel of having a truly elite very well prepared army at your disposal but if you notice that cost remains the same it is not like you are going to be able to pump out storms at the same rate people pump out volks they are simply to expensive. Yes storms are awesome but they are beatable and these storms represent early invasion units so they can't be given the slightly god like mp44's. So yes having them buildable probably does take away from the wehr and maybe a different similar unit should be substituted for them maybe dropping cloak but for now the principle of them being more or less stormtroopers I think is fine.

The resource manipulation was just a basic example of the concept that is all this is, is a basic example of the concept in development I am sure something like that would be addressed and altered to 3-1 or 2-1 or 2.5-1 something.
Just for you I changed the example.  :P

Last edited February 23, 2010 at 10:47 PM by nomad52

This seems like a blitz wehr made production standard... I don't like it, and why does everyone take my Nashorn idea with the Long Range Low armor very powerful with only slight modifications like LOS....

The only two things taken from blitz wehr is storms and tigers and I am not the only one to have taken tigers.

Honestly I never saw your nashorn idea I have just always wanted one.

also you posted at the same time as me, the storms are just a figurative of some unit like them that I couldn't think of a different name for that would be nigh identical possibly laking cloak.

Last edited February 23, 2010 at 10:50 PM by nomad52

Don't forget the resource blitz reversal and the rocket battery, the only thing that is different is the one you have is 150mm and on map....

The rocket battery is constructed and then used like a firebase; something that germany as a faction is yet to see.
If it makes you happy think of it as a artillery pit or close air support that you can call in repeated for free on an area it doesn't matter the point is that it gives germany a firebase.

The resource exchange is similar to but substantually different from the blitz one. In the blitz one (if memory serves) you trade 200 mun for 900 mp and then take a 90 second mp income decrease which comes out to about a 1/3rd of what you gained in mp also it is doctrinal. with my proposal you can exchange any resource for any other (yes there would have to be conversion rates) and you don't take a resource income deduction for using it.

Note: Changed the name of the stormtroopers to "Schwere Infanterie" or Heavy infantry. and reengineered the wording

Last edited February 23, 2010 at 11:52 PM by nomad52

this entire idea still sounds like a Blitz knock off

ok then you think it is a blitz knockoff because of a few aspects one of which I modified as opposed to looking at the concept as a first run base diagram of a faction that is your opinion.

If you could give me alternatives to what I have suggested as a similar unit that you think gives it a less "Blitzy" feeling then I would welcome them into the concept as either a replacement or a modification of the current concept.

all in all I think an entire reworking would be appropriate, look at some of the other idea's that are well praised and spend some time to think about unique idea's rather then taking the units and ideas from the other axis armies

again not really constructive. The concept as a whole I think is fairly unique you get everything immediatly except for the best which you have to really work for.
It has a similar vet system to wehr but it is spread out through all the buildings.but really not many vet systems are left.

because I can count on one hand the units I took from other factions but I can't say the same for the new units.
After modification I took.
Tiger which really it wouldn't be the eastern front without it
Grenadiers, but really infantry is infantry you can't get that unique.
Panther which again a lot of people used an even relic doubled up on this one.
PZ4 which was such a common vehicle that you couldn't have a faction without it.
and I guess you could say the halftrack but it is a halftrack again it is such a staple unit of the time period that you couldn't have a german faction without one.

yes alot of the building abilities are doubles like, hulldown, trenches, fireup etc but they all fit the faction.

I didn't ask you to completly disregard the idea and say it needs to be done again I asked you (and everyone else) because you seem like you know what your talking about for specific aspects that you think need be changed.

Last edited February 24, 2010 at 12:30 AM by nomad52

Take a look at Aouch's, Lord Rommel or My idea's all have been told they are good idea's (personally I am gonna say if we combined them all we would have the best but that is me not everyone else)

I did look at your idea unless I missed something it is just a list of units with no real direction. Also their is a handful of units I could call doubles of other preexisting units. ;)

Such as? And why do you say there is no sense of Direction? I suggested a way the Ostheer to be tiered and and constructed... 

Last edited February 24, 2010 at 1:18 AM by hgghg4

Combat engineers- look alot like the British Sappers.
Ef Sappers- even you admit are very similar to PG's
Marder II- well...
2nd SS Panzer Infantry- very similar to storms.
2cm Flak Cannon Pit- Bofors?
Panzerwerfer 42- the wehr rocket track fairly similar.
advanced Warning- well...
Booby Trap Building- hmm...


I think that is most of them. I am not knocking your design the units look great it is just that like mine some units do look awfully similar to if not near carbon copies of pre-existing units or abilities.
       


Could you point the direction out to me? I must have missed it. (honestly no sarcasm I want to see what I missed)

Last edited February 24, 2010 at 1:30 AM by nomad52

Combat Engineers - Very Weak
Eastern Front Sappers - Similar yes, but not identical
Marder II - Can't say its in the game anywhere
Panzer Infantry - Elite Inf, not really similar to Storms
FlaK pit - more like a single barrel FlaKveirling in a mortar pit
Panzerwerfer looks nothing like a Walking Stuka, look it up, completely different
The last two yes, I admit to taking because I couldn't think of anything worth putting in there...

But I am talking about your concept as a whole would make me feel like I am playing Blitz not a new faction

What I was hinting at I guess I should have explained myself better is that your marder is different yes but nothing overly different in practice than the PE Marder.

Last I checked Elite infantry qualifies as storms for the germans :) but that is besides the point your guys may operate in a completely different role if so then cool but the quick glance I gave them looked very similar.

Flak pit is my bad I got it confused with a 37mm flak  ::)

The Panzerwerfer in practice would be pretty close to the walking stuka more like a nebel but they fulfill the same role.

but this is all semantics now so it doesn't matter if you feel that it is blitzy than so be it! :D