How can Werhmacht withstand the Russian Rush?

Hey Guys,

I just played the mod today (Kursk), and no matter what I did, I simply could not hold back the hordes of Russian soldiers.

I just simply cannot accumulate enough man power to train enough troops for domination of the map.

The only significant advantage the Germans have in the early game is the MG42hmg, but the russiana have so many rifleman they can outflank, mortar and snipe, forcing a retreat.

Once the mgs have retreated, it's simply impossible to retake lost points because they have too many units in position already.

The only alternative I can think of is to concentrate all units in one sector of the map and bunker that area with mgs and then to bring up snipers and bikes to kill mortar unit and to anti snipe.

Any other ideas? It's no wonder the Germans lost world war 2-there were simply too many russians.

belongs in the Tactics and Strategy section... but to answer your question... try this build order Bike Bike HMG Bike Volks MP40upgrade

well, I play mostly 2v2 with a friend so each of us can concentrate on our special subject. for example i make only snipers while he keeps producing only volksgrenadiers and all that kind of other infantry. So we can combine a handful snipers + some infantry and that works very well together. finally when i have 10 snips, the russians will lose all direct infantry fights and will be forced to retreat (as long as there are still some russian survivers which is very seldom lol). afterwards my team mate can capture all enemy territories the russians have left.  ;D

Of course, the Russian player also could make many snipers as well, even more than i have, however, most times i win the snip vs snip fights (i'm highly skilled in this haha) ;)

i know it's kinda a noob tactic to spam with snipers, but with all due respect, the russians have mortars the strenght of a artilelry strike! so i think it's just fair ;D

Last edited February 13, 2010 at 9:43 AM by BlackDahliaMurder

courageouslion wrote:
Hey Guys,

I just played the mod today (Kursk), and no matter what I did, I simply could not hold back the hordes of Russian soldiers.

I just simply cannot accumulate enough man power to train enough troops for domination of the map.

The only significant advantage the Germans have in the early game is the MG42hmg, but the russiana have so many rifleman they can outflank, mortar and snipe, forcing a retreat.

Once the mgs have retreated, it's simply impossible to retake lost points because they have too many units in position already.

The only alternative I can think of is to concentrate all units in one sector of the map and bunker that area with mgs and then to bring up snipers and bikes to kill mortar unit and to anti snipe.

Any other ideas? It's no wonder the Germans lost world war 2-there were simply too many russians.

Do you have the latest patch 1.04?

yeah, it sounds as if you are playing 1.00 where the soviets are like zergs and are everywhere obliviating all that exist. if you can hold ground against that you are a god:P

I always beat russians as well after a while i got vet 3 units pounding away, i hope you are not forgeting to vet your troops up?


I remember a PE (not wher but i digress) game where my allied player was a total idiot acting like a easy computer, however the thing is because the allied player can't retreat i spammed mp44 and hetzers (hetzer because the russians will eventually spam IS and of course it does not take fuel)

First in the beginning it was shaky but in the end when i got 4-5 mp44 with defence vet fully upgraded they just owned the soviet infantry.

Mean while my also fully upgraded hetzers pwned the IST's.


Winning the game with my allied base totally destroyed.

It was awesome game.

Games with russians are the most fun.

Marders are godlike with triple offensive vet against russian armor :D

I always play PE against Russians, but I always get a teammate that uses Wehr, 95% of my teammates used nothing but Vetted Volks. Use Some squads with Mp40s and some without (For flank support) The Mp40s rush in front of the regulars keeping the enemy away from the support squads, then have 1 or 2 bikes in reserve on the flanks, in case they make mortars.

attack them before they attack you. Defeat the Russians early before they get a chance to build up. you can get Stugs fairly ealry.

you can also just put up an awsome defense, and then hold them off long enough to get an attack force of Panthers

Pumas fare well against enemy infantry because of their effective OMGLULZ infantry gun, and nothing can really penetrate the armor early except PRTD and the ZIS.

If they start to break out tanks, strive for Pak38s and StuGs or higher.

HMGS do better in heavy cover than in buildings because they are made easy targets for conscript spams to strike at it.

Remember, any tactic you had in the previous original games MUST be re-worked because of the new units ;)
___________________________________________________
Addon: Basically, if you can survive early and part-mid game, you have the game in the bag, about the time that you get mid game, the CPU will most likely (I say 80%) will spam a doctrinal unit and drop ALL other production. Katyushas and Partisans are common, Mechanics have happened too. I've also seen a tank rider spam but once they all blew up the CPU went back to regular T-34s.

When they spam units, especially Katyushas, they won't use their abilities much (Excluding Mechanics, who will repair then fight) and instead, they'll march them towards you like they're gods. A Pak38 can take 2? maybe 1 shot and kill Katyushas, and the CPU won't maje ANYTHING but them.

Last edited May 20, 2010 at 3:13 AM by Cranialwizard

Cranialwizard wrote:
Pumas fare well against enemy infantry because of their effective OMGLULZ infantry gun, and nothing can really penetrate the armor early except PRTD and the ZIS.

If they start to break out tanks, strive for Pak38s and StuGs or higher.

HMGS do better in heavy cover than in buildings because they are made easy targets for conscript spams to strike at it.

Remember, any tactic you had in the previous original games MUST be re-worked because of the new units ;)
___________________________________________________
Addon: Basically, if you can survive early and part-mid game, you have the game in the bag, about the time that you get mid game, the CPU will most likely (I say 80%) will spam a doctrinal unit and drop ALL other production. Katyushas and Partisans are common, Mechanics have happened too. I've also seen a tank rider spam but once they all blew up the CPU went back to regular T-34s.

When they spam units, especially Katyushas, they won't use their abilities much (Excluding Mechanics, who will repair then fight) and instead, they'll march them towards you like they're gods. A Pak38 can take 2? maybe 1 shot and kill Katyushas, and the CPU won't maje ANYTHING but them.

Yeah Pumas dont fare too well when the PTRDs come out, especially when they get the Vet 3 PTRDs.......I honestly think they should be nerfed.....PTRDs have 100% penetration percentage, and it gets annoying when these little pea shooters are taking down entire biuldings or destroying your Heavy Tanks from the front  (I.E. Panthers, Tigers,King Tigers,JagdPanthers),each hit is guarenteed damage and they are a bitch to kill.

wat? U mad? very funny we all know anti tank rifles can't kill tanks without being killed themselves.

attack them before they attack you.

Yeah, that works if you enjoy the 20 minute game. I prefer to build up a large tank division and rush their base later on. They can take all the territory they want, but it wont help if you destroy them at home.

Versedhorison wrote:
wat? U mad? very funny we all know anti tank rifles can't kill tanks without being killed themselves.

On the contrary , I have had Boys AT rifles take out Stugs and even Pz IV's in the right situations , the PTRD units can take out 234/1's almost easily.

Yeah, it kinda seems a little too effective. I don't know about russian weapons but the way they slaughter my armor... is it perhaps overpowered or is it just me?

I agree, overpowered.

I've found with the PE that the panzergrenadiers supporting infantry halftracks with G43 panzergrenadiers works early until the PTRD come out, the PTRD units and sniper teams will decimate anything until the heavy jagdpanther, marder, or panther battle group comes out.

with PE I tend to go with G43 and squad size upgrade to deal with russian infantry and go straight for panzer IV tank since by the time I'd get armoured cars with 20mm cannons tank hunter squads come out pretty soon and in numbers. The panzer IV can deal with the tank hunters quite well.

in the beginning i find mixing volks with mg42s and some bunkers with medics can hold them off till i can get mortars and flak panzers

I recently played the Kursk map as the Werhmacht and found that the most important point being the fuel point to the north.
So i rushed to it built a bunker and tried desperatly to hold off the soviet inf.

I used Volks+motorcycles to hold back the inf, once i upgraded the bunker with MG i could lure the russian inf through that field of fire, and eventually i got mortar to hammer them while they were suppressed with a heavy machine gun team that worked pretty well.

I found i had to adapt my tactics to fall back quickly if there were russian infantry nearby then lure them into the firezone.
it certainly wasn't easy but with the inf halftrack things got easier as at least i could reinforce right where i needed too and flank them with pios with flamers while supressing them with  hvy machineguns.
once the russian command squad uses up it's arty strike in a charge, they lose their potency and can be mopped up with machine guns and mortars.
takes a while mind. alot of micromanaging.

I usually go PE, and run with PGs. The first two PGs get G43s, the next 4 get StG44s. G43s get Def>Off>Off vet, the STGs get triple Def vet and become my meatshield...and every time I fight a Russian player i get hit with a hoard of unmicroed Conscripts so I can just waltz wherever I please [Fals in cover+ FG42s I've had fulley vetted within 15 seconds of their deployment+upgrade; side note]. I've finished 10 games in a row now with 6 PGs and an ATH in ithe russian base in about 15-20 mins. Just make sure to get Defensive Op and 4 Man squads ASAP, and you're good to go. Just vet up your PGs and you've got the thing in the bag; send your Kett around to cap while the Russian gets tunnel vision trying to kill your vetted Pgs...oh, and the PE AC with its LOLZORPWN_ROFLECOPTER gun shreds Russian inf too...

Try the garlic bomb , creates havoc amongst those vodka smelling conscripts...


For Russian armor , try broadcasting some reggae into their tank radios , the crew will jump out and start dancing and you can kill them all!!!

Ha Ha......  sounds evil

I know you meant it as a joke but most Russians have never even seen a black person. I'm pretty sure they won't start dancing away to reggae.

Hmm , you are probably right , allright let it be pop then


Imagine when the crew will hear "What goes Around , comes back around" on their radios...

they will perhaps try installing a glitter ball inside their T-34's..

Then you can send out your snipers to snipe those dancing russian bastards

---

Post Merge: [time]1281421419[/time]

---

And besides nowadays no one needs to see a black guy to listen to their music

Your an Australian , Ive never seen or interacted much with Australians(except on cricket matches and online forums and chatrooms) , however i do listen to the music , Australian accent somehow sounds like english accent spoken while twisting you tongue


Cheers :D

Last edited August 10, 2010 at 6:23 AM by AbhMkh

There is quite the difference between an accent and an exotic type of music. Australians listen to western music while a Russian wouldn't even know what to make of Reggae. They would much prefer if you blasted "Kalinka" at them.

Anyway... back to the topic.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
They would much prefer if you blasted "Kalinka" at them.

WIN ;D

---

QuoteRussian wouldn't even know what to make of Reggae.

Indeed  :D Russian Reggae

loooooool , thts because they dont speak english.. ;)

Back to topic.
But it seems the most effective way to resist the Russians is with Motorcycles and HMG's , selecting defensive doctrine wouldnt hurt either for the base MG's

Sometimes, it depends on the map you're playing. But a good strategy would be a Bike to harass the early Ingenery, then a Volks squad with a MP40 upgrade to tear apart even a command squad, and 1 or 2 MG42 in heavy cover at early game choke points or in crucial buildings.

MG42+Volks+Bike

Getting a 234 would help aswell , making it keep its distance so the volks could clean the tankhunters and have the 234 kill anything else should be effective.

I'd prefer a 235

ThGermanElite wrote:
MG42+Volks+Bike

+1

Akalonor wrote:
Getting a 234 would help aswell , making it keep its distance so the volks could clean the tankhunters and have the 234 kill anything else should be effective.

Yes, and you can upgrade it to puma if there's fast armor coming :P.

AbhMkh wrote:
I'd prefer a 235

And what's that???? A prototype Sd.kfz. ::) ??

No its no prototype ,i wrote the name wrong ,  its Sd.ffz.9 with 8.8 mm aa guns

AbhMkh wrote:
No its no prototype ,i wrote the name wrong ,  its Sd.ffz.9 with 8.8 mm aa guns

Cool unit :P.

I should show you that replay I did with 4 Expert AI Russians versus 3 Wehrmacht humans on Berlin, your learn a thing or 2 there.

Seeme wrote:
I should show you that replay I did with 4 Expert AI Russians versus 3 Wehrmacht humans on Berlin, your learn a thing or 2 there.

okay go for it.

Crap, It was on a old patch, sorry folks. Nvm.

In the most recent patch, I discovered the JagdTiger is more of a turtle/defensive unit (Exactly how they were used in WW2...kudos to the Devs)....inching it forward, as your frontline troops move up. Its kinda useless in 1v1 games...however its a great unit if supported correctly. Ive seen alot of players try to use it like a Tiger or Panther....and it really is a tide-turner. I highly recommend it in any game other than an 1v1, and even more recommend it if you have teammates that are PE. (BergeTiger) and it proves its worth vs Shermans and T34s.

I'd like to see a Bergitiger vs SU-122 battle

*Repairs the KT in front of him, he wins*

Seeme wrote:
*Repairs the KT in front of him, he wins*

lol

Seeme wrote:
*Repairs the KT in front of him, he wins*

+1 and lol

Seeme wrote:
I should show you that replay I did with 4 Expert AI Russians versus 3 Wehrmacht humans on Berlin, your learn a thing or 2 there.

Seeme verses Expert AI  ::) I cant help but Loling at that.....
but about the 234 , its supposed to be in game .....

I Lol at you with a Normal Computer...

And that was when Russians were alittle Overpowered, anyway.

I can take hard AI no problem , Seeme is overrun with easy AI

But 234 All the way , the Puma upgrade helps out a bit aswell against early T-70's

Your telling me, you lose 3 before you killed that 1 t-70 ;D

But yea without a AT gun it is pretty good.