DON'T NERF INGENERYS!

(I consider this a balance issue of a future patch, so I did not add any [1.04].)
First of all I want to say that I am not someone who don't want you to destroy my glorious red army ::). I usually (always) play PE, and I love to play vs soviets. (Also I don't consider this a balance issue of a future patch, so I did not add any [1.04].)

BUT:

I read somewhere that you were going to change the ingenery rifle to conscript rifle so they wouldn't be so effective, but I don't think that is a good solution. You should rather make them BETTER and raise the cost.

This is because this would encourage those who spams inf to use conscripts, and also give the soviets one of these so much needed choices between spamming crap or build a few good soldiers.

And this would help against both the early ingenery spam and the later spam of sturmovie ingenery (which I HATE).

If anybody complains about that the builder units must be cheap, maybe give the conscripts the ability to build base buildings. But the soviet would in my opinion have good of getting a little late start.

Agreed 100%. If you do ANYTHING either raise the cost like Toorstain said or reduce squad size. Let's move away from the "large amount of weak units" design choice and something that follows the spirit of CoH (and history) - small but effective units.

ah we see that its actually a cry for wanting to be able to ingereny spam to win??

Hmm. Moders can create a new ingenering unit "battle engeners". But not buildable in HQ! The same pleace in teh tree like a Guards. And deprive ordinary engineers armor and flamethrowers to new adwenced ingeneers for higher cost.

There will be a number of changes but the nerf stick on the engies will remain for now. Engies are a building unit, not really a combat one, unless (like say WH) you invest in them.

People don't invest on NKVDs until because in a small part...these guys carry them through the early stages along with unupgraded conscripts...which is far from idea.
Btw at the moment PE is bit too good vs soviets at the mo. this is due to PE grens getting shit loads of XP and then blobbing like mad...

Grens + g43 killing conscripts easy but at start they have big problem against command squad. Spam still killing grens easy and i thing PTRD squad work against PE squads like a snipers. 2 snipers squads killing PE inf easy and fast.

But the greatest problem in my opinion is that upgraded ingenerys are so cheap and still good so you can make a "super-blob" and nothing can kill them. (Free satchel charges rape armour)

So why not make the ingenerys an expensive "early game elite unit" that can win against Pgrens but is to expensive to make more than 1-2 of from the start?

Last edited February 10, 2010 at 1:59 PM by Toorstain

i would say making them worse to make people who do play russians more prone to want conscripts is a nice idea.

i have not gone against any real spam, mostly because i have effectively killed it before it became too big.

i have also not really seen a big difference in the accuracy of ingenerys and conscripts....hmm

-narizna

Flamethrowers engeniers need a nerf

They are insane powerful against elite units

My idea is to make them unable to shoot when moving,to have very small range attack(1/2 range compared with grenades),and if one soldier is killed to explode killing/burning any infantry who stay near.Also this is close to reality,and bring more balance in game.Careful use will make them very useful,but throwing them alone in a rain of bullets will be a foolish or  desperate decision.

This change will not make them useless,but will be necessary to be used just as support or kamikaze units,and not like OP spearhead how it is now

Allot of people use just engeniers with flamethrowers as infantry,and that destroy the fun of strategies and gamplay. 

Last edited February 10, 2010 at 10:54 PM by PSIHOPAT

IMO think just nerf their ppsh a bit and that's it.  They should be allowed dual flamers because they can't retreat and they don't have a suppressing breaking ability on their own.

PSIHOPAT wrote:
Flamethrowers engeniers need a nerf

They are insane powerful against elite units

My idea is to make them unable to shoot when moving,to have very small range attack(1/2 range compared with grenades),and if one soldier is killed to explode killing/burning any infantry who stay near.Also this is close to reality,and bring more balance in game.Careful use will make them very useful,but throwing them alone in a rain of bullets will be a foolish or  desperate decision.

This change will not make them useless,but will be necessary to be used just as support or kamikaze units,and not like OP spearhead how it is now

Allot of people use just engeniers with flamethrowers as infantry,and that destroy the fun of strategies and gamplay.

I have noticed that PE blobs a lot and many people start countering them by flammers since pe infantery get owned by flamme.
I don't think that it should be nerfed. Unupgraded, ingenerys are weak and so they can not be sent to an attack even wih flammers. The upgrade cost 200 ammo and you need then 50 ammo (soviets can't make op). You should have vehicules if you are pe (Remember that pe= vehicule faction) and if you are wehr, you have mgs , grens , vetted flammers, mortars maybe puma if you had time.

Switching mosin of ingeneys ok but I believe they are ok as they are.

I allways hated that engineers, pioniers, sappers and now ingenerys are so cheap and cant fight as well as regular infantry.
Sturmovie infantry was a good idea (like Tommies and PE grens that can build or repair).

Just make them more expensive...

I told about flamethrowers engeniers from all factions to be unable to shoot when moving,and and their range to be very small(half compared with grenade range).When upgraded with flamethrowers thy will loose ability to repair.

Also when one soldier is killed to be 50% chance to burn any other soldier who stay close.

This will force the player to use them only as support unit or for suicidal attack .

Suicidal attack mean they will attack enemy infantry,and if are killed,will burn allot of enemies.Of course this situations can be avoided by skilled players...and here come the fun. 

This idea is very close by reality,because flamethrower used by infantry was very useful,but need to be used carefully.Flamethrowr unit is highly vulnerable to bullet fire.If one bullet hit the flammable gas cylinders,that unit is kaput,and anyone caught to close will become "fried chicken".

Last edited February 11, 2010 at 1:30 PM by PSIHOPAT

QuoteIf one bullet hit the flammable gas cylinders,that unit is kaput,and anyone caught to close will become "fried chicken".

Somebody has been watching too much Hollywood. Bullets are not made of fire, so they cannot ignite the petrol. They usually just caused a leakage if the cylinder was hit.

Also, we aren't going to change the core game mechanics for all factions. You have been here long enough to know that.

actually the napalm liquid, if hit with a tracer have a small chance of igniting a fine mist caused by the breached canister, but its so slim... which is why it rarely happens in game...

Is possible to get answers without insults ?

Also why my suggestion is wrong for one mod who pretend to not be realist ?

Because we have told you that we will not change the original factions or the core Vanilla gameplay and functions time and time again, and you seem to think that the more you say it, the more likely it is to happen.

Than don't change original factions if this is final decision.

Change just flamethrower enegeniers from russians and later Ostheer.

This change will make their engeniers unique from others.

It will require new strategy with they.

Is not need always unique models to make a unit to be unique from other who appear to be the same,but is not.

When answering you? No not really Mr. Troll...and Ostheer probably won't have Flame units... just like PE so that means you gotta find another way to deal with the entrenched units... its a new strat... observe and adapt

Mr. Troll ?

With time you become more rude Mr. hgghg....
Look at your nick,signature and comments smart-ass,and try to find something intelligent.

If Ostheer have no flamethrowers is another problem.

Anyway,i begin to become tired and sick,by the herd of idiots from here,who are tolerated and some of they appreciated and encouraged.

My disgust begin to reach at the limit...

PSIHOPAT wrote:

Anyway,i begin to become tired and sick,by the herd of idiots from here,who are tolerated and some of they appreciated and encouraged.

My disgust begin to reach at the limit...

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day......