Balance the soviets would ya and AI

Could you please just balance the soviets and the AI. All your opponent needs to do, is have there partner  pick soviets and drop, and it's game over once the computer takes over.

I went against 2 level 4 scrubs with skirmishes of 200 wins and 400 losses. One of them dropped 4 mins into the game as me and my ally owned his soviet troops. 10 mins later, we were pretty much overrun by the entire soviet guy that dropped. His partner, the other human player, only had about 20 kills, by the end of it, showing you how useless he was. The computer on the other hand caps EVERYTHING. Not being able to retreat is godsent to these mother fuckers. They escape with one guy and thats all they need to cap everything. We were playing Duclair, and had top fuel point and bottom fuel point. However SOMEHOW the computer built a fuckin Firepit, a Tank Hall, and 3 tanks ALL within about 10 mins, with NO fuel  ( plus remember they can't cap what fuel they had anyway ). So the computer OBVIOUSLY cheats.

Im a level 15 Wehr Player, and level 12 PE ranked. So I know exactly what Im doing, as does my partner on Duclair. Please, fix this bullshit for the rest of the people. Im going back to regular CoH.

Last edited February 6, 2010 at 8:43 AM by Zerstörer

So....what you are saying, is that you were playing guys who were far from good players bsed on those stats....owned them(so you were happy then)...but once one stopped and the AI kicked in, you couldn't beat that because the AI gets a resource boost to compensate for the obviously not being as good as a human player(most of the time)...You should have finished off that player way before the 5 minute mark but my guess is you underestimated the AI controlled player.

We don't get complaints for AI being challenging and owning people very often...well done, you've made that very short list!

Lesson for you there...
The only AI "boost" from difficulty level to difficulty level is the multiplier for resources.

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I believe Easy is 1.0 (meaning the same as a human), normal 1.1 or 1.2, hard a little higher and expert a little higher than that.

So say if it were 1.5 and their income would be 300 mp (using even numbers), they would get 450 mp per minute instead of 300 mp.

Though some accuse the AI of "cheating" due to this (which I understand the point, but vanilla AI does the same with resource bonuses AND health bonuses), the reality is the AI no matter how "smart" you make it needs extra resources to make more "human like" decisions.

Whereas you, the human, know to make a purchase/use an ability at the precise moment you have enough, the AI tends to want a little more than enough and always has some in reserve.  So, in reality, it doesn't fully use the bonuses it gets and never will.

Last edited February 6, 2010 at 8:59 AM by Zerstörer

VargasTheSick wrote:
Please, fix this bullshit for the rest of the people. Im going back to regular CoH.

So long, and thanks for all the tears.

VargasTheSick wrote:
Im going back to regular CoH.

Excuses excuses. It's not the mod's fault that you are such lousy player, after the 1.04 nerf even a decent PE player can keep the Normal-Hard AI in line.
no VargasTheSick , YOU are the scrubs.

Zerstörer wrote:

We don't get complaints for AI being challenging and owning people very often...well done, you've made that very short list!

LOL

Let's see ANY of you scrubs upload a replay of you and your friend beating 2 Hard Soviet computer players on Duclair via VP. I'd love to see it happen. Unfortunately no one here could do it. So get off your fuckin high horse.

ahaaa. Dude how old are you liike 5?
These people took 3 years making this Mod, Unpaid , and your moaning because of the AI. N you call everyone scrubs>?
???
You must seriously suck at COH.

xxredmaxx wrote:
ahaaa. Dude how old are you liike 5?
These people took 3 years making this Mod, Unpaid , and your moaning because of the AI. N you call everyone scrubs>?
???
You must seriously suck at COH.

Level 15 Wehr Player on Ranked thank you very much. I don't mind a challenge against an A.I. However when I want that challenge against a machine that has more resources then I do, I'll go ahead and load that skirmish up. What is not fair is someone dropping early game, and then having to play against those cheating stats. Are you telling me you wouldn't get pissed of if someone drops 4 mins into the game, and the expert Soviet AI takes over and destroys you and lowers your level and stats ?.

Look at the " I think the AI just got better... " thread. Im not the only person bitching about this.

Again, I'd like to see anyone upload a replay of them beating 2 hard Soviets on Duclair via VP. If that CAN'T be done, guess what developers, you got a problem with your MOD.

I find that winning against the AI is :
Survive the incredible hard initial/middle rush.
Until he comes out with Katyushas... then it's game
over, as he just spamss them one at a time and a
simple puma kills 'em all :p

VargasTheSick wrote:

xxredmaxx wrote:
ahaaa. Dude how old are you liike 5?
These people took 3 years making this Mod, Unpaid , and your moaning because of the AI. N you call everyone scrubs>?
???
You must seriously suck at COH.

Level 15 Wehr Player on Ranked thank you very much. I don't mind a challenge against an A.I. However when I want that challenge against a machine that has more resources then I do, I'll go ahead and load that skirmish up. What is not fair is someone dropping early game, and then having to play against those cheating stats. Are you telling me you wouldn't get pissed of if someone drops 4 mins into the game, and the expert Soviet AI takes over and destroys you and lowers your level and stats ?.

Look at the " I think the AI just got better... " thread. Im not the only person bitching about this.

Again, I'd like to see anyone upload a replay of them beating 2 hard Soviets on Duclair via VP. If that CAN'T be done, guess what developers, you got a problem with your MOD.

blah blah blah you've got giant e-peen and are better than us yeah?

The A.I has always got a resource bonus in CoH. If you look at the other AI threads they're mostly full of people saying how good and challenging the new AI is...but feel free to ignore them.

dude no crap your not going to be able to play the Russians!!!!!! You went on about your score. OK well think about it. YOU got used to playing against the Americans and the English. So yeah your not going to be able to play against them. You just have to relearn everything that you learned.

I have no problem beating the AI on Expert in regular CoH buddy. I however cannot beat the AI on an open map on hard. Put me on a map with choke points like Scheldt, Vire or Lyon and it's easy. However on a wide open map, where 90% of your battles online are going to take place, you just can't account for the soviets AI micromanagement and income. Now that's all fine, it's just the AI you say, so what's so big about that.  Well it becomes a damn big issue when people drop because of lag / shitty computers / running out of time / any other issues. Then you are paired against an opponent that has every advantage against you. Am I going to play chess against an opponent that has 5 more of every piece ?. Screw that. I like the advanced AI when I play them under my own settings, on a map of my choosing. However now Im more afraid of the opponent dropping and facing the computer then I am of ANY player.

vargas, complaining you cant beat the computer (weather it is difficult to achieve or not) says nothing about the game, try playing against good PEOPLE and i assure you, not only will you learn more and have more fun but youll get better at coh to, so when you get good youll be able to beat 2 hard comps on duclair w vp on....and with VP on is how the game is supposed to be played, VP ON NORMAL RESOURCES. 

WhiteFlash wrote:
vargas, complaining you cant beat the computer (weather it is difficult to achieve or not) says nothing about the game, try playing against good PEOPLE and i assure you, not only will you learn more and have more fun but youll get better at coh to, so when you get good youll be able to beat 2 hard comps on duclair w vp on....and with VP on is how the game is supposed to be played, VP ON NORMAL RESOURCES.

So... are you a good player ?. Can you and a friend beat duclair on hard against 2 soviets, and please upload a replay and show me how it's done ?. Did you not read that I am a level 15 RANKED Wehr player 1 on 1 , and level 12 PE RANKED 1 vs 1 ?. I think that alone speaks for my skill level. I am NOT a scrub player. I have NO problem beating other players. The problem I am complaining about is an overpowered AI that steps in " IF " someone drops in an online game.

As soon as someone beats them, and posts it, I will give you 100% applause and look up to you.

Go back to vCoH already like you said, no one cares.

Hi Vargas, [no offence] have you won the AI on expert, namely US, Wehr, PE and Soviets (Brits AI are easier to beat) in 1v1 common maps like Ango, Langres or Semois? These should be quite "open" maps.

Personally I don't frequently win the above expert AI, but it is possible on some occasions. In 2v2 games but with AI team player (expert) -- not human player, I have won 2 Soviets expert AI before. Map played is Wolfeze and Lorianne.

May I ask, when a human player drops in team games, what difficulty skill has the AI when it takes over the human? Is it expert?

As I'm a fair and open minded guy and we 'd like to make sure we get things done the right way.... tell you what Vargas, we now have a replay section, so why not post that game so we can see how/why it went wrong.

From your description...
Only 1 guy dropped so you only faced one AI opponent with a beaten army and a second 'Human opponent' which had at that time a beaten army as well...facing two 'GOOD human players
And you're saying that one AI opponent with a 'crapy' Human ally at THAT moment in the game managed to turn everything around....as they say in GR 'replay or it didn't happen' ;D

Last edited February 7, 2010 at 4:42 PM by Zerstörer

Zerstörer wrote:
As I'm a fair and open minded guy and we 'd like to make sure we get things done the right way.... tell you what Vargas, we now have a replay section, so why not post that game so we can see how/why it went wrong.

From your description...
Only 1 guy dropped so you only faced one AI opponent with a beaten army and a second 'Human opponent' which had at that time a beaten army as well...facing two 'GOOD human players
And you're saying that one AI opponent with a 'crapy' Human ally at THAT moment in the game managed to turn everything around....and as they say in GR 'replay or it didn't happen' ;D

I don't believe I saved the replay, I'll check when I get home, Im at work right now. If I still have it I have no problems uploading it !.

Zerstörer wrote:

Fivestargeneral wrote:
Hi Vargas, [no offence] have you won the AI on expert, namely US, Wehr, PE and Soviets (Brits AI are easier to beat) in 1v1 common maps like Ango, Langres or Semois? These should be quite "open" maps.

Personally I don't frequently win the above expert AI, but it is possible on some occasions. In 2v2 games but with AI team player (expert) -- not human player, I have won 2 Soviets expert AI before. Map played is Wolfeze and Lorianne.

May I ask, when a human player drops in team games, what difficulty skill has the AI when it takes over the human? Is it expert?

Wolfeze is the smallest 2 vs 2 map in the game, and Lorianne is small as well. Try Duclair, Rails and Metal, Lorraine, any of those maps.

I am not sure what my opponent was replaced with, I can only assume it was hard, not quite expert. I couldn't believe all the units I was fighting against though. I hope I can find the replay tonight or tomorrow when I get a chance. Not to mention in the game the computer guy some SERIOUS lucky arty  ( 1 shot taking out an entire Volks squad, and 3 of my grens while they were regrouping, yea bad on my for having them grouped together. )

I can beat an Expert AI on Lyon, Vire, Scheldt, pretty much any map you can funnel him. Tank trap and sandbag the bridges, get 3 quick MG's down the middle and it's pretty much good game till you get a force to push through. However on an open large map, you just can't account all of your troops for what the soviets get to cap. It's not a lack of micromanagement. It's the fact that he simply has more, and his troops last longer. That's a downhill game.

so you're saying you can't fight Russian AIs on open maps?

so far since the 1.04 patch i have been able to beat the Russian AI everytime.

i have played against the hard Russian, once you get used to the new tactics you need to employ against Russia, you have gotten the next 10-15 minutes down set.

now let's say the player dropped, what about your ally you were playing with? Against russians you should immediately think "defensive strategy." you need to be ready for their good ol conscript rush at the start, if you are able to deplete that and keep a good portion of the map for the first 5 minutes, you are set to win.

-Narizna

Narizna wrote:
so you're saying you can't fight Russian AIs on open maps?

so far since the 1.04 patch i have been able to beat the Russian AI everytime.

i have played against the hard Russian, once you get used to the new tactics you need to employ against Russia, you have gotten the next 10-15 minutes down set.

now let's say the player dropped, what about your ally you were playing with? Against russians you should immediately think "defensive strategy." you need to be ready for their good ol conscript rush at the start, if you are able to deplete that and keep a good portion of the map for the first 5 minutes, you are set to win.

-Narizna

Hi Narizna, may you play a 1v1 game (open maps, not chokepoints maps like St. Mere) with the Russian AI (hard or expert is fine) and upload that replay? I am interested to see how you survive the initial Russian blob and using the Defensive company.

Thank you.

Fivestargeneral wrote:

Narizna wrote:
so you're saying you can't fight Russian AIs on open maps?

so far since the 1.04 patch i have been able to beat the Russian AI everytime.

i have played against the hard Russian, once you get used to the new tactics you need to employ against Russia, you have gotten the next 10-15 minutes down set.

now let's say the player dropped, what about your ally you were playing with? Against russians you should immediately think "defensive strategy." you need to be ready for their good ol conscript rush at the start, if you are able to deplete that and keep a good portion of the map for the first 5 minutes, you are set to win.

-Narizna

Hi Narizna, may you play a 1v1 game (open maps, not chokepoints maps like St. Mere) with the Russian AI (hard or expert is fine) and upload that replay? I am interested to see how you survive the initial Russian blob and using the Defensive company.

Thank you.

I would like to see that as well. I don't have my old replay because I never saved it, and I played another game with my brother right after ( Gilroys Harbor ) and beat the AI soviets. Again, Gilroys it is very easy to make a choke point for the soviets where they just keep walking into your MG fire.

Like the General said. Try this on any other Map. Hell, try it 1 on 1 Lyon. ANYONE that can beat a Hard or Expert soviet on that map I'll give you $50 via Paypal lol.

Zerstörer wrote:
So....what you are saying, is that you were playing guys who were far from good players bsed on those stats....owned them(so you were happy then)...but once one stopped and the AI kicked in, you couldn't beat that because the AI gets a resource boost to compensate for the obviously not being as good as a human player(most of the time)...You should have finished off that player way before the 5 minute mark but my guess is you underestimated the AI controlled player.

We don't get complaints for AI being challenging and owning people very often...well done, you've made that very short list!

Lesson for you there...
The only AI "boost" from difficulty level to difficulty level is the multiplier for resources.

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I believe Easy is 1.0 (meaning the same as a human), normal 1.1 or 1.2, hard a little higher and expert a little higher than that.

So say if it were 1.5 and their income would be 300 mp (using even numbers), they would get 450 mp per minute instead of 300 mp.

Though some accuse the AI of "cheating" due to this (which I understand the point, but vanilla AI does the same with resource bonuses AND health bonuses), the reality is the AI no matter how "smart" you make it needs extra resources to make more "human like" decisions.

Whereas you, the human, know to make a purchase/use an ability at the precise moment you have enough, the AI tends to want a little more than enough and always has some in reserve.  So, in reality, it doesn't fully use the bonuses it gets and never will.

i fully aggray with you ;D ;)

So...$50 to anyone who can beat Russians 1v1 on Lyon with AI set to hard?  Looks like a challenge to the community if you ask me. You really going to pay $50 to everyone supplying a replay of that win or are you just flapping your lips?

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Post Merge: [time]1265660339[/time]

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First try. Lyon 1v1 vs Russians on Hard....and I noobed it.  Here's the replay in a zip (not sure how to share the replay any other way.)

http://the-package.net/CoH/50BucksOrShutup.zip

You can send the $50 to [email redacted]

Last edited February 8, 2010 at 8:18 PM by mystic-eye

:))))))

What a game....
I thought will be a really fun watching that replay...but..it seems not...

AI make almost nothing,just sit and let you to collect points for victory.

Or is replay bugged or you trick in some way,because i can't recognize that AI,who don't move units in 70% of the time from all replay...don't even capture territory...just few...and all units killed is one squad of conscript....really bloody battle i must recognize...

Try to play annihilate next time,and we hope to see this time a real battle...not this....

Last edited February 8, 2010 at 9:13 PM by PSIHOPAT

"Hell, try it 1 on 1 Lyon. ANYONE that can beat a Hard or Expert soviet on that map I'll give you $50 via Paypal lol."

It was never mentioned HOW it had to be done. There were no rules posted etc. No, it wasn't exciting. It was extremely boring, but it got the job done. He stated he would pay $50 if it could be done...and I made it so.

The AI will break down if you block off its goals (like the VP's). You lock it out and it's gg.

Something was wrong with that AI

disable fog of war and you will see how sit and do nothing

mystic-eye wrote:
"Hell, try it 1 on 1 Lyon. ANYONE that can beat a Hard or Expert soviet on that map I'll give you $50 via Paypal lol."

It was never mentioned HOW it had to be done. There were no rules posted etc. No, it wasn't exciting. It was extremely boring, but it got the job done. He stated he would pay $50 if it could be done...and I made it so.

The AI will break down if you block off its goals (like the VP's). You lock it out and it's gg.

If you want actual $50, yea I'll make some rules too it lol. And the AI needs to function. Like I said, if my previous posts, I have no problems on maps with choke points. Sure you can block Lyons bridges and the computer say's WTF do I do now ?. I guess Lyon is not the best example. I suppose a better map might be wrecked train as it's more open.

VargasTheSick wrote:

If you want actual $50, yea I'll make some rules too it lol. And the AI needs to function. Like I said, if my previous posts, I have no problems on maps with choke points. Sure you can block Lyons bridges and the computer say's WTF do I do now ?. I guess Lyon is not the best example. I suppose a better map might be wrecked train as it's more open.

That's it, I'm in. brb, defeating the EXPERT AI in wrecked train with the PE no less.

Surprised more people arn't hopping all over this. He's making rules now, so get er' while she's hot!

mystic-eye wrote:
So...$50 to anyone who can beat Russians 1v1 on Lyon with AI set to hard?  Looks like a challenge to the community if you ask me. You really going to pay $50 to everyone supplying a replay of that win or are you just flapping your lips?

---

Post Merge: [time]1265660339[/time]

---

First try. Lyon 1v1 vs Russians on Hard....and I noobed it.  Here's the replay in a zip (not sure how to share the replay any other way.)

http://the-package.net/CoH/50BucksOrShutup.zip

You can send the $50 to [email redacted]

Hi mystic-eye, I think you misinterpreted Vargas reply. What he meant was in open maps. Of course in maps with choke points such as Lyon, you can force the AI to go in a direction and gg. The real challenge is open maps (try Duclair as he said). Unless of course you can use barbwire to wire up the whole place, aka choke point and then win. But it's a challenge to do that.

I tried again tonight with my brother on duclair against 2 hard soviets, and we couldn't do it. His computer ended up crapping out and screwing his RAM over lol.

There certainly is still a crash issue with the MOD...hope that gets fixed soon.