Explain to me why I should ever build Conscripts

After my first 2-3 games, I stopped building conscripts and haven't missed them since. Ingenery and the Command Squad fill the gap nicely in the early game, and skipping the Mustering Tent saves 25 F that I can use to get out a Support Barracks quicker for Sharpshooters and Tank Hunters.

Conscripts simply suck. Vanilla they die extremely fast, have only 4 rifles, refuse to stay behind cover, etc etc. The NKVD upgrade isn't worth it either, especially since now they cost pop. Red Banner Strelky have basically the same anti-suppression abilities, but have better weapons and longevity.

Spamming Ingenery instead of Conscripts is better for another reason: when your squads invariably get wiped out by Wehr motorcycles, your opponent gets only 4xp instead of 8xp!

Gatorbate wrote:
and skipping the Mustering Tent saves 25 F that I can use to get out a Support Barracks quicker for Sharpshooters and Tank Hunters.

Please update your game.

Yea....

Also enginers with body armor and explosive charge are very effective unit,good for almost anything.They can repair,build,spot mines,shoot with automatic rifle good at close range, and throw explosive who can destroy tanks and buildings very fast....and that for only 150 mp.Far more useful than conscripts.

I told about engineers to cost 300,and conscripts 150,but it seems developers think to be ok how it is.

Venoxxis wrote:

Gatorbate wrote:
and skipping the Mustering Tent saves 25 F that I can use to get out a Support Barracks quicker for Sharpshooters and Tank Hunters.

Please update your game.

Ah, there's a patch already? I've only played EF vs the skirmish AI.

In 1.04 is how i told.

Ten times more useful and cheap enginers than conscipts.

Actually that's one of the things that makes Soviets a bit stronger than they should in the opening stages...which is why those Ingenery boyz are getting the conscript mosin next patch  ;D

Can be little more clear this information?

Conscripts will have automatic weapon from engeniers after upgrade,and enginers will use just rifle like conscripts.That sound good.

But also is good to be known=>all conscripts will use automatic weapons,or just half,and other will use rifle?...or will be an option for choose like for strekely.

It is like that ... or...?...

No the Ingenery will still have a mosin but it will be the concsrips' mosin (they will lower the power of the ingenery mosin !)BUT the conscrips won't have PPSh XD

There are several reasons to use conscripts...

1)Meatshields that cost no pop so you can make more specialist units and vehicles.

2)They cap/decap fast

3)NKVD upgrade makes them a decent cheap match for vet1 volks or Vet0 Grens

4)Use them as bait or expendable distraction to buy yourself time

Garrison a building in a decent strategic point and the Axis aren't going there until they get Pumas. By then, you will have put Tank Hunters there.

WartyX wrote:
Garrison a building in a decent strategic point and the Axis aren't going there until they get Pumas. By then, you will have put Tank Hunters there.

You can counter that with Snipers, Grenadier grenades, and Pio-Flamers

Also, I don't find Tank Hunters to be very effective against Pumas. Before their upgrade their PTRS weapon has a very low ROF and 20mm Pumas are very effective against infantry, even in buildings


BTW, is there a way to make Conscripts "pick up" their comrades' fallen Mosins so they always have at least four rifles no matter the squad size? I remember running around once with a 4-man Conscript squad and only one had a gun, so they were useless

Last edited February 3, 2010 at 6:45 PM by Gatorbate

Things happen very fast,and armored units come soon in battle.

I make first upgrade for enginers,and than for AT squad...and so on.

With enginers upgraded,i can destroy tanks and infantry much more efficient,and cheap(MP).

I use conscripts just for capturing territories...and less in combat assault situations.

I hope to be changed that in next patch.
Maybe in the next patch i will change my strategy...

By the way...when will come ?

Gatorbate wrote:

Also, I don't find Tank Hunters to be very effective against Pumas. Before their upgrade their PTRS weapon has a very low ROF and 20mm Pumas are very effective against infantry, even in buildings

Yeah I'm working on that... ;)

Zerstörer wrote:

Gatorbate wrote:

Also, I don't find Tank Hunters to be very effective against Pumas. Before their upgrade their PTRS weapon has a very low ROF and 20mm Pumas are very effective against infantry, even in buildings

Yeah I'm working on that... ;)

Thanks! By the way, all my criticisms are purely of good faith, your mod is great, I just want to see it improved :)

Why not give AT rifle to enginers,with command points,replacing flamethrowers from urban combat doctrine?

This will make Russia even more special,because no other faction have that,and history say about they to be equipped in this way.

Every 2nd/3rd german soldier had a faust in 44...you don't see that in the game do you? No, AT role is for the tank hunters not the engineers

Hmmm...

Panzer elite have allot of infantry with AT weapons,and is no problem there.

If USSR will have armored enginers with AT rifle,will be nothing wrong in that.Also this is historical accurate.

Tank hunters can be cheaper,and with camouflage can have great bonus,also having AT magnetic mines...and enginers,used for their duty,or as direct assault force,having almost all is need at disposal.

I am a strong believer in "Faction Compatibility," meaning that I believe that U.S. vs. PE or Brit vs. Wermaht is very different from what the game designers might have intended. You CAN play like that, and you most definitely can win...but there are some significant differences that make the gameplay just weird. As I see it, US = medium infantry; medium tanks Brit = great infantry; weak tanks (excluding Firefly) Soviet = weak infantry (beginning ones); strong tanks (the later ones). It is much easier to just play against a faction that is COMPATIBLE with the faction you chose (meaning, a faction that shares the same infantry/tank ratio of strength). The point I'm making is: Certain factions have better/worse infantry while the opposite is true about the tanks. Yankee & Brit vs Wermaht & PE is great if Yankee focuses on tanks and Brit on infantry (because those GENERALLY are their strong points). If we try to adjust Soviets to Wermaht, you are making them more like Yankees. I believe that a compatible faction should be created before any drastic changes may be made. Naturally, Soviet SHOULD be able to win against any faction...and they do...just...not easily anyways (unless you've mastered them already, in which case, I'd appreciate some strategy advice, other than Sapper spam :D).

the fact that they have no pop cap maybe?

Hmmm, after playing 3 games this afternoon, I think I discovered a use for them after all in late game:

- Don't upgrade, build 10-12 squads
- Send in waves of Conscripts before the tanks to absorb initial AT and 88 fire
- Flank with T-90s while Conscripts and T-34s engage the enemy

Gatorbate wrote:

BTW, is there a way to make Conscripts "pick up" their comrades' fallen Mosins so they always have at least four rifles no matter the squad size? I remember running around once with a 4-man Conscript squad and only one had a gun, so they were useless

I agree with this problem I remember playing on one of the call of duty games where you play a conscript in Stalingrad where commissars yell out "the first man gets a rifle, the second ammunition". at first you get the ammo and don't get a mosin until someone with a rifle dies after 2 mins or so later.

Also I believe that Ingenery are a bit too powerful (not OP) but I've seen them fight off multiple unvetted pioneer squads at once although I have seen pioneers beat ingenery's one on one. I reckon they should be weaker in the damage the cause or have two rifles between the four like conscripts.

Just my Idea's...

I find conscripts to be good mortar and mg bait allowing me to flank without losing any useful units, also good as sniper bait if they are not careful allowing you to expose their snipers

They also work well as ranging units for artillery, katyushka's , mortar's and your own sniper units, just send them forth and use their line of sight to set your long range attacks before they get slaughtered

I only use conscripts early in the game to capture points and defend them. Mid game I swich over to strelky (and red banner strelky) as my main infantry unit but I still use the constructs for fast and cheap support when I need it untill I can deploy some better units. I never upgrade them though becuase thats a waste.

I also noticed a few coments about the conscripts picking up rifles. I to think this should be added to the game. It would make them more usefull. I may be making this up but I could almost swear that before the mod launched I saw something about this being a feature....anyway this should be added into the game.

What would be handy if the upgraded conscripts didn't cost any pop, that would make them semi-useful in the late game as an actual fighting unit rather than a meat shield / suicide spotting unit