[1.04] Some suggestions

First of all, I would like to congratulate you for your efforts and for the wonderful MOD you have made.

Here are some suggestions I would like to present. I want to emphasize on that it is my own opinion and it is based on what I have played so far - I still haven't tried every single strategy with the Soviets.

*edited* 1. Command Squad should be 3 persons. In early game it can be very hard for the opponent to stop a Command squad plus one or two squads of conscripts in the open field. Maybe you can make them a bit harder (to survive heavy MG and sniper fire) but they should be less than 5 man in my opinion. Also, I think it will be better if their artillery costs some ammo (like 15), reduce its cooldown a bit and keep it powerful as it is. Like some people already suggested, you can make them resist suppression. You can make Charge ability to buff up nearby squad's defense a bit and you can also reduce its cooldown. In this way the Command Squad will act more like really hard support/officer squad and not like some elite infantry unit as it is now.

*new* I just came up with the idea to give LMG to the Command Squad (if you decide to reduce its number to 3 men). In this case you will be mostly concerned with preserving your Command Squad, than rushing with it and killing some volks. Also, it will be perfect to support the brainless Conscripts (especially when they get boosted a bit with the new rifles) with some LMG fire.

2. Strelky: I believe their number should be reduced as well to 6 man. It is just too much to have 2 types of infantry with so many soldiers in their squads.

*edited* 3. Sniper team: I believe Artillery Spotter upgrade should be global again and then paying like 25 ammo every time you use this ability. In 2v2 and bigger games when you have the resources to mass infantry, sometimes it gets hard to really control all these unis - masses of conscripts or strelky, to micro the command squad in some decisive fightings, to watch over snipers because you have paid precious 75 ammo for the spotter and sometimes it is required so little to get them killed, especially when your attention is elsewhere. So, in my opinion, global upgrade and paying a bit of ammo for artillery will prevent you of smashing your head after you lose exactly the sniper team with arty spotter :)

4. T90: I saw some people mentioning that this unit should be improved and I have to agree. Its accuracy its not really great and I kind of find this unit not very reliable against infantry.

*edited* 5. IS-2: I believe there should be some upgrade in order to be able to produce it and this upgrade should cost both ammo and some fuel. As it is now, when built Tank Hall gives you access to all vehicles while IS-2 was put into action in the year 1944. In such case, you can reduce the ammo required for IS-2 gun upgrade.

6. Katyusha: I didn't find any info in change logs, but I find them weaker than before. Is that so and if yes, it will be better if you increase their damage a bit since they are easy to destroy.

*edited* 8. Ammo management: Like playing the rest factions, playing with the Soviets should involve more ammo management. In my opinion the player should carefully pick what to upgrade and which abilities to use in order to save ammo for later.

So, I think some infantry abilities like grenades or artillery should cost a bit of ammo, as well as some doctrine abilities like God of War (150 ammo for example) and IL-2 Sturmovik (100 ammo). Both abilities are powerful and as we know Wehr has to pay 150 ammo for V1.

My idea is that the player has to decide either to do several upgrades for their units or to save ammo exactly for those abilities because using them can be decisive.

*new* 9. Soviet artillery: It is true that Soviets have some artillery abilities like the ones on the Sniper teams and the Command Squad, but the Howitzers are a bit useless in any other game than 1v1. Their range is too short even on medium-sized maps and it should be increased in my opinion. To be honest, I haven't played with Howitzers since the last 2 patches, but it seemed that the Howitzers were quite powerful before. So, I can agree on nerfing a bit their power if it is necessary in order to increase their range.

I will update my post soon enough when I try different strategies and find more balance issues. Best regards.

Last edited February 6, 2010 at 10:50 AM by orenda

orenda wrote:
1. Command Squad should be 3 persons. In early game it can be very hard for the opponent to stop a Command squad plus one or two squads of conscripts in the open field. Maybe you can make them a bit harder but they should be less than 5 man in my opinion. Also, I think it will be better if their artillery costs some ammo (like 50), reduce its cooldown a bit and keep it powerful as it is.

Command Squad does act as a T1 KCH; typically I'll get between 30-50 kills with it before T2/3 Wehr finally overwhelms it. That said, knocking it down to the major and only two bodyguards would swing the balance of favor to Wehr, especially if they have interlocking MGs covering each other.

I can support some kind of ammo cost, especially since it's Wehr's rockets but 50 would be too high... possibly 5-15, like how Relic had fireup cost munitions in previous patches.

As for your other suggestions, I just can't swing for them. No offense, but it almost seems that you want the Soviets to be... American.

I would like the command squad to not be as ridiculous early-game, i mean the devs said that the soviets are supposed to be weak early on, and right now they are like the british on steroids.

I feel like the command squad has to be used in order to escape suppression, not being able to go through it and circle the mg. If they can make that happen, then it would be less like Heroic charge and there wouldn't be so many problems with the command squad being ridiculous anymore.
If this mechanic works properly, I wouldn't mind decreasing the cooldown on it at all since it would be necessary in order to escape and reposition your units, instead of blobbing and going in there gunning and running.

I would like the command squad to not be as ridiculous early-game, i mean the devs said that the soviets are supposed to be weak early on, and right now they are like the british on steroids.

??????
Maybe it is not good idea for you to leave your MG alone?
Or maybe command squad can't be stopped by Volks?
Command squad is the only one who can say something to MG, besides it is no fall back and no MG for soviets in erly game.
So it is quite fair  ;)

Or maybe command squad can't be stopped by Volks?
They can?

Insert Quote
Or maybe command squad can't be stopped by Volks?
They can?

Sure can.
Rely on situation.
I ment that they aren't OP infantry unit compare to axis one.
Becides you can build only one command squad.

I suggest to be given ability follow to command squad,like officer from britain.

Extending this idea >i thing allot of units need this ability,because following something don't require training,and will make micro manage more easy.

Infantry following tanks,and supporting them will be a real improvement.

Also tanks need to give cover,not just destroyed tanks.

@Ohmega - like I said in my post, I believe there should be more ammo management while playing with the Russians. Its not really fair towards the rest factions where you lack ammo for proper squad upgrades and you really have to decide when to upgrade or use given doctrine abilities. In some ways, playing with the Russians is just infantry spams until you can produce some proper tanks and get to the nice doctrine abilities. Meanwhile you just use your ammo for global upgrades. If some of those global upgrades required a bit of fuel and of course some of them get ammo cost reduced, then players should starting thinking of other strategies, because they won't be able to produce T34 so quickly as it is now. Its my opinion and I don't insist that the rest have to agree with me :)

@PSIHOPAT:

PSIHOPAT wrote:
I suggest to be given ability follow to command squad,like officer from britain.

I was thinking about that as well, but really I believe the Command Squad should have support role similar to the British officers, though Command Squad have to be stronger and harder.

Also, it was not something usual for the Russian army to see their commanders leading the assault. Commissars and the rest superiors were staying at the back, sending masses of conscripts to their deaths. In most cases, Russian superiors were cowards relying on the ordinary man from the village to win their war. So, if we have to stick to the history and its facts, then the Command Squad's support abilities should be improved in order to keep the balance and to be able to successfully use Conscript squads.

Saving officers is no cowardice.

If they piss their pants in battle,that can be named cowardice but not otherwise.Also i don't think USSR was used coward officers.

Other countries...yes...many officers was just a bunch of cowards....

Last edited February 3, 2010 at 10:30 PM by PSIHOPAT

IMO the balance is perfectly fine right now...the mechanic repair wreck thing might be a little bit sketchy, but all else is pretty much near perfect right now.  The command squad is not op imo...mg and volks can easily take it out, and if you don't know how to anticipate his early arty strike and move fast, then you deserve to lose anyways.

The command squad is there to counter the vetted volks for example, and how much does it cost to get the vetted volksgrenadiers? Almost nothing, instead of pio spam, give the vet to volksgrenadiers and pomp some of those out together with mg's and you will be getting those early russians running home.. yeye, what about the arty? well watch what you are doing and just move when you see the smoke.

same for the ammo, the Russians can't boost their income, so they do have to think about the upgrades they want. But if you give them time to get resources, like any other opponent, it will get quite hard to win.

About T90, use them in groups (of 2 or something), they cut through halftracks as if they were made of butter.. and they will also shred infantry. BTW they are there for early game counters. Thats why the are available when you build the tank hall, the other tank hall units will only be available when you have build all other buildings. And that is also the reason why they die so easy when you shoot some shreks at them.

For vetted infantry, use (shock)guards (with tank support.. or the other way around, and just push the Germans back to their bases.)

The sniper arty, well it could be a global cooldown, but shouldn’t cost anything because the upgrade alone already costs ammo. But frankly, because it isn’t a  global upgrade anymore, it is already nerfed and a lot better than it was in the beginning.

orenda wrote:
@Ohmega - like I said in my post, I believe there should be more ammo management while playing with the Russians. Its not really fair towards the rest factions where you lack ammo for proper squad upgrades and you really have to decide when to upgrade or use given doctrine abilities.

Agreed, the disagreement came from the amount of munitions. For early game, especially on EF maps, I can collect perhaps 10-20/min IF I have overwhelming map control. Making a cost to anything more than that negates the Cmd Sq's artillery to force the Germans out of pre-positioned DFPs (ie, interlocking MG positions).,

Yes, I agreed that the amount of ammo I proposed was too high, so I changed it in my first post. Hopefully, in the next patch some things will be change and more ammo management will be required while playing with the Soviets.

*edit* I just came up with the idea to give LMG to the Command Squad (if you decide to reduce its number to 3 men). In this case you will be mostly concerned with preserving your Command Squad, than rushing with it and killing some volks. Also, it will be perfect to support the brainless Conscripts (especially when they get boosted a bit with the new rifles) with some LMG fire in the early game. I will be glad to hear some opinions about that.

Last edited February 6, 2010 at 11:00 AM by orenda