Sniper ace...a bit to expensive?

First off, let me say, i really feel like the last couple patches balances the game (In a sense, enough for me to play it without screaming THIS IS OP) and how this is a great mod.

Secondly, the sniper ace imo is really weak due to its large manpower cost (750!), Requiring 6 (I believe) command points.  He is like a glass cannon, really good for supporting your infantry and really good against demobilizing tanks, but other then that you get him WAY to late in the game for him to be as effective for his manpower cost (By that time, T-2's can be obtained which cost 150 mp less then the sniper ace).  So, i am proposing either easier survivability, less manpower cost, and less amount of CP needed.

tl;dr Sniper ace should have more survivability, less manpower cost, and less cp

I can't speak for everyone else, perhaps it's just my playing style, but he tends to rack up 100+ Infantry kills everytime I deploy him. Thus making not only an efficant killer, but he can clear the road for IS-2's and T-34's by taking out AT guns by himself.

My record is 130 kills with him, sadly I never really get past that point cause he gets killed, but I feel that I've earnt my fair share.

Maybe I'm just content with 120mm Mortars and a Sniper Ace - I am very skilled in those and I can hold back entire army with 2 mortars and 1 Sniper Ace on the right map..

Not everyone has the same gameplay tactics, so I would say your playing the Sniper Ace incorrectly, change your tactics to better suit the Urban Combat Doctrine, then you will find his efficancy increase and Price won't really matter.

I do tend to agree that he comes very late in the game though.. He should be a mid-game unit rather then an endgame unit..

Tarkka-ampuja wrote:


Maybe I'm just content with 120mm Mortars and a Sniper Ace - I am very skilled in those and I can hold back entire army with 2 mortars and 1 Sniper Ace on the right map..

yeesh... talk about shit micro or bad counter O_o

Tarkka-ampuja wrote:
I can't speak for everyone else, perhaps it's just my playing style, but he tends to rack up 100+ Infantry kills everytime I deploy him. Thus making not only an efficant killer, but he can clear the road for IS-2's and T-34's by taking out AT guns by himself.

My record is 130 kills with him, sadly I never really get past that point cause he gets killed, but I feel that I've earnt my fair share.

Maybe I'm just content with 120mm Mortars and a Sniper Ace - I am very skilled in those and I can hold back entire army with 2 mortars and 1 Sniper Ace on the right map..

Not everyone has the same gameplay tactics, so I would say your playing the Sniper Ace incorrectly, change your tactics to better suit the Urban Combat Doctrine, then you will find his efficancy increase and Price won't really matter.

I do tend to agree that he comes very late in the game though.. He should be a mid-game unit rather then an endgame unit..

The problem is, microing can only go so far, the moment i see a sniper as PE i send my armored car/infantry/vehicle after it and 90% of the time he gets the kill, even if they are retreating (Which the Russians don't have).  He is also less effective on larger maps, as you said the right map is not every map.  It is also extremely disappointing to have your sniper step on a butterfly bomb and die in one hit (Happend to me once) or one shotted by an armored car.

I myself am not the best micro, but i know enough not to get a sniper killed by simple infantry and how to use him as a scout.

Last edited February 2, 2010 at 5:23 AM by DestroAnt

Tarkka-ampuja wrote:
My record is 130 kills with him, sadly I never really get past that point cause he gets killed, but I feel that I've earnt my fair share.

Funny cause by time you get him, Wehr T3 on the field. In fact, the one time I used Sniper Ace I lost him due to one 88 hit... from out of his range... on lower terrain... after only 2 kills.

Needless to say, I believe Urban needs to be a bit retooled before I use it again.

Well yes, everything you guys have listed is true. And hgghg I said I could hold back an army with that, not "I do" : P.

But yeah, it's about strategy's, I tend to keep my Sniper in one place as opposed to moving him around alot, most often when he dies it's because of a random mortar or a sniper I didn't see, (even though I tell him to hold fire when I see snipers, and I kill them first.. Usually there is more then 1..)

It's confusing to explain but it's just the way I play, I put my Sniper say, on point X on the map, to stem the flow of Infantry by covering the bridge, also spotting for amour, and I focus my infantry and tanks on Point Z, and when needed send a few units to help my sniper.

That's gameplay, tactical I agree completely with Ohmega.. Not a major overhaul.. But there's no point having a Sniper at T3 when theres Tiger Tanks running around..

The sniper ace gets 50-100 kills every game if your average at microing snipers, ive played with people who get 50 kills with normal snipers and when they get their hands on the sniper ace, its ridiculous.  c

My point is that the sniper ace cost justifies its power, it has to come late in the game because mid game it would absolutely dominate.  The standard counter is a bike, which gets sticky bombed by the sniper.  If your having trouble with armored cars then your not covering your sniper very well...its an expensive unit so you should protect it, a lot of people send it in thinking itll win the game, and it DOES do a lot of damage regardless.

The only thing that might need to be modified is the snipers health.  Reason being is that 1 mine or 1 butterfly mine or 1 sniper shot shouldent kill it.  Any one of those should put it to below half health, but the cost needs to reflect some survivability. 

But keep in mind, the sniper survives off stealth NOT sending it in and praying. 

Bottom line:

Everything thats on the sniper is fine except for...

Shouldn't die from mines or counter sniper in 1 hit.  2 should kill it.

Yeah that's what put me off, I'm good with them and in a game I get over 300 kills with Sniper Aces, but with individual ones I only get around 110 cause thats how long they last.. Someday I'll get on a roll and break 250 with one Sniper, I know it! :D XD

QuoteShouldn't die from mines or counter sniper in 1 hit.  2 should kill it.

Balancing the sniper ace is not that simple.  Well micro'd it is extremely dangerous, and it is far powerful more than a regular sniper.  It has stickies, smoke to help it survive tight spots, AND can get arty upgrade.

Remember, unlike reg snipers it infiltrates AND comes out instantly.  That alone is worth 150+ MP over a wehr/amer sniper.  Personally, I think the arty upgrade should be taken away.

If you give it heroic armor it will be nearly invincible if well microed.  Right now it is simply very dangerous well microed but not impossible to stop.

I say keep the Sniper Ace just the way it is... its a freaking Sniper Ace... It SHOULD be powerful... but snipers are lightly armored... and heavily armed... the Sniper Ace is both of these + some... leave him as is don't change him

Sniper ace is hard to kill by normal sniper. Too fas haiding in camuflage after shot. But is rediculus sniper attack tanks and spotting arty without radio. Firing too fast too.

I have to agree with flash here.

Camo run + stickies + insta arty. With good protection + good micro can deal way more damage to your opponent than 750.

Some american players use about the same ammount for 2 snipers against medbunkering t2 players as a hard-counter for their infantry-based strat and I can see The Ace doing much more damage than 2 american snipers to that sort of strategy.

SexyUnderwaterAction wrote:
Camo run + stickies + insta arty. With good protection + good micro can deal way more damage to your opponent than 750.

This is excatly why he warrents a worth of 750 amo ..Also , he is not that easy a kill .

Regards
funnyme

i actually think hes too cheap at 750 because like its been said....

he can kill just about anything, hes best spotter, has arty of its own and also a sticky with which he can kill vehicles in combination with arty. not to mention hes a standard vet3 ami sniper with added commando smoke to help survive...

and yes like its been mentioned, he is weak to mines and counter sniping, you know just like any sniper

but u cannot take away his only weaknesses, or he will completely dominate.

yes if people get 50 kills with wehr/ami snipers, how in the world could you not get at least double of that with this guy, he has FOO arty! that and axis has no strafes or commando drop

Russian sniper is easy to kill,with minimal casualties.Just send one volk squad in direction where is hidden,and walk with the sniper behind/around.When sniper ace shoot,is killed immediately from the german sniper shoot.Nothing more easy...and 750 mp will be waste of resources,because with this price can be recruited three strekely or IS-2 with fuel.

Also sniper ace can be killed with grenade(no mater if is hidden),mortar barage or any ground attack from guns or artillery,nebelwerfer,air strike,mine,few moto,armored cars....just an easy prey.

Can be dangerous and make such number of kills only if are left alone and not get special attention.After that,will be dead very soon with minimum looses.

One little trap,and is gone...:D

Last edited February 2, 2010 at 12:43 PM by PSIHOPAT

Yeah if hi walk alone.

Support units can't protect them from butterfly mines,mortar area attack,artillery attack,aircraft attack,sniper...so on....

If ace sniper have support,german sniper  can kill them without any problems,and will use retreat,saving his life,and causing an enormous hole in russian economy in one strike.

Very simple is also with butterfly =>just drop them over his head and will die surely without much worries...and other example,how i told....

I liked them first,but after some time i was realized is no worth to chose this doctrine just for having sniper ace.

Is to expensive for his job and chance of survival against human player.Can be good against computer,but human player kill them fast without many problems,and that manpower hurt allot.Recruit them three or four times after he die, on small or medium maps,and you will have no manpower for other units.

Last edited February 2, 2010 at 1:37 PM by PSIHOPAT

Funny cause by time you get him, Wehr T3 on the field. In fact, the one time I used Sniper Ace I lost him due to one 88 hit... from out of his range... on lower terrain... after only 2 kills.

Needless to say, I believe Urban needs to be a bit retooled before I use it again.
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You just got unlucky... That is not a question of balance...