Red Army suggestions and balance issues aka 10 things that needs to be fixed.

At first i want to thank all the developers for this great mod, that has incredible potential. It is really like an unofficial expansion to the game.

And now for those suggestions and balance issues -

1. Teching up
Red Army has very slow teching up ability, if they have any teching up...e.g. from conscrips to t-34 tanks it takes realy a long while, ive played a few maps against Wehrmacht and at a time they have Stug, Puma and even a Panzer IV i only have enough fuel to construct the Tank Hall...not mention i dont have enough to buy a single T-34...temporary solution is ofcourse the AT gun ZIS-2 which is very powerfull, but for an example two Pumas can quickly and without any significant problems flank it and destroy it. I think the best way to make some teching and some strategic decisions with soviets will be lowering cost of their buildings, such as Tank Hall from 100 fuel to equivalent of PEs buildings such as Panzer-Jager Kommand to 30 fuel. This will allow soviet players to quickly deploy some armor to counter axis early-game armor threats such as Puma. Namely it could be a T-70 and T-90. Then you could buy an upgrade to deploy medium tanks such as T-34 for some fuel cost again it could be equivalent of Jager komand upgrade of PE...so 40 fuel. Lastly in late-game you could upgrade the Tank Hall to deploy heavy armor, that means IS-2, that could cost say 60 fuel...this will in summary means youll need 130 fuel to get those IS-2s, not mention its own cost. So it will be more than it is now and it will take longer time to tech up to them. It will make new strategic decisions and will differ the gameplay of each played game.

2. Overpowered AI
Most problematic issue is i think the AI, which is absolutelly overpowered...i never had a problems against Hard, even sometimes an Extreme CPU in vanilla CoH, but here it is different...if i play against even a normal it is like Super Extreme. This clearly needs to be fixed. For instance its absolutelly annoying when enemy tanks charge at your tanks and you are shooting each other at point blank range. In historical references tanks shot at each other at minimum distance 50 metres, not 50 milimetres! So the AI needs radical changes.

3. ISU-152
The ISU is very powerful, but in my opinion it has a serious accuracy problems...it only fires like 1 or 2 shots per minute, which is ok with me, because as history tells it was exactly like that, because it has a big 152 mm shells, which was difficult to load. Anyways it is completely and absolutely annoying watching a Stug firing one shot and another at your ISU, that is only sitting there like a duck and when it finally fires it misses!!! So the accuracy has to be improved. Another thing is that ISU carried 13 High explosive (HE) shells and 7 Armor Piercing (AP) shells, so if ISU would be only one time only on the battlefield, again which is ok compared to Wehrmachts Tiger i suggest it will be nice new feature to add a feature to switch shells of ISU from HE to AP and vice versa, as it was in Tiger Ace campaign in ToV. This will minimize the slow firing rate and one time only on the battlefield. And lastly it will make the ISU an effective unit.

4. no MGs
I respect the decision of devs to not integrate MG nests in building tree, but only through a certain strategy, namely "Propaganda Strategy", its cool, but not integrating an MG team is very bad idea...there is absolutely no way to suppress enemy infantry other than with Guards upgraded to Shock Guards with their Suppresive Volley ability, which is useless in late-game. Soviets just need some suppresive unit in early-game, just as Wehr or US. As it was said several times on this forums they should get an MG squad...the choices are many, if it will be a Maxim M1910 or DShK is solely choice of developers. It will greatly improve the strategies you can use while playing Soviets.

5. Securing resources and building OPs
Although its nice that soviets capture points really quick, but they have no choice to secure that captured teritorry. That is a big problem against fast players or armies such as PE. With their halftrack units they can quickly come and take those territories before you can react. Again as it was said on these forums great idea is to upgrade Outpost to secure that territory in which it is build. It will greatly increase the importance of an Outpost and it will be a new and fresh addition to vannila CoH securing OPs. When this could be done capture speed of soviet units should be ofcourse nerfed.

6. ZIS-5 Medical truck and Outpost.
The ZIS-5 is a great support unit, but it has only limited effectivness...it can heal your units, but not recruit new, for that reason you must build an Outpost, which in addition can recruit new units, but not heal them. It is very difficult to maintain these two things in frontline combat. I suggest a upgrade, which can be buyable from Armory say for big price 300 munition, that will make recruiting new units from ZIS-5 possible and vice versa healing from Outpost. So both ZIS-5 could be used as recruiting/healing unit and Outpost could be a staging area and/or regrouping area with healing/recruiting abilities, plus it could be upgraded to secure a territory as mentioned above. I know it is not realistic, but sometimes you must prefer game mechanics from realism. Although PE and Wehr can recruit new soldiers from their halftracks, which is not realistic either.

7. Sound of soviet units
Though i like that soviet units talk russian, but frankly its kind of weird to hear from T-34 something like "Sherman atakuju". I know that recording a new voices will make this mod to be delayed even further, but its not as difficult as it looks. Ive been modding with few friends a game called Ground Control II (dont know if someone heard of it, or know it), it was good game, though it missed one faction in multiplayer or skirmish...that faction was there, but only in campaign and it was not playable...our goal was to make them playable in skirmish at least. Weve made new sounds, weve recorded voices of units, it was not an easy task...but it worked. Anyway only thing you need is a software to record and another to clear the noise and change effects to make it look like it was from an transmitter or walkie-talkie. And ofcourse some guy, or guys who can talk english and russian as well. I think that when youll hear Conscripts yell "Uraaaa" it will bring a little more soviet-like feeling in this great mod.

8. Untakeable weapons
Decision of devs to not allow soviet soldiers to take enemy weapons is quite cool, its a new mechanic and i like it, but not to allow them to take their own, for instance a ZIS-2 gun when their former crew was killed is quite annoying. Ive read here it was causing game to crash, but it has to be some way to make that happen. Or if there cant be a way to do that, than i think good way will be to destroy for example that ZIS-2 gun as well when its crew has died. Something like a last guy will throw a satchel charge on it and it will be destroyed, so it not goes to wrong hands, namely the Axis ones. This will bring some balance back, because ive played some maps, when i had a need for those ZIS-2 in early game to tackle enemy armor, but sadly lots of them was destroyed or they crew members was killed and when i finally had some tanks the Hans happily brought them back to me...i think i dont need to mention the outcome of this.

9. Guards
The Guards are a great unit, but i think theyve missed their potential...theyve could be something like Wehrmachts Knights Cross Holders, basically a hero units. They are unsuppresable, but thats all. Its true that they are far better units than conscripts, but thats because of their veterancy so they should be able to go toe on toe with best Axis soldiers. I know the Axis players will be complaining about this, but im an Axis player myself rom vanilla CoH and i think this will be a first true test for those Knights Cross Holders. In addition Guards could be much more expensive, say 500 manpower compared to those 360 of Knights...

10. Sniper Ace
Only one thing about Sniper Ace...its great unit, but ive read here on forums that he should be able to kill hero units such as the Knights Cross Holders for one shot each. Thats untrue because, ive played few maps with him and basically he needs to shot two or three shots on one of them to kill him. That needs to be fixed.

So thats my list of 10 changes. I hope the devs will read this and realize at least some of them. Anyone feel free to post something of your own suggestions, id like to compare them to these.

Lastly one more BIG thanks for devs and for their excellent work on this mod. Thanks guys...youve made a hell of a job...

Last edited February 5, 2010 at 12:17 PM by Strayker

i fully agreed :D

hehe lol any more wishes? meyby nuklear bomb? Star Destroyer? Jedi?

Actually a Darth Vader as a hero unit would be nice ;D
...No seriously, just read the text...maybe you will disagree with something but with some things you might agree...

7. Sound of soviet units- agree

Vader should be on WH side:)
ok empire for ger, new republic for russians
in this balance thy sohould be able to destroyd Deth Star using on X-wing  ;D

Last edited January 28, 2010 at 8:12 PM by Bauer

I largely agree with Strayker.

Thank you all for your feedback. And thanks for your backup Savatiy. ;) ...hope someone else will like this thread as well and ofcourse i hope some of the Devs will read it.

Nice suggestions, agree with all except

2-The AI is better than before, fun and challenging. But it needs some tweaking, like after you survive and kill all the russian units all the AI does is spawn Katyushas without any additional support.

7-"I think that when youll hear Conscripts yell "Uraaaa" it will bring a little more soviet-like feeling in this great mod."

YESSSSSSSSS!! The problem is that recording all the sounds for all the units and actions will be nearly impossible. Even if someone used sounds from other games like COD:WaW it will be astill a very time-consuming task. Plus the whole permission to use sounds issue the devs mentioned.

10-Agreed, sniper ace should be able to one-shot ANY infantry unit, even Wehr officers.

agree with some disagree with others, but one thing that u said that does iritate me is when they call t34's shermans and t 90's greyhounds etc.
I wish they would fix that

1. Teching up is not slow:
Escalate to Assault Phase costs 85 fuel
Wehrmacht Quarters 15 fuel
Sturm Armory 35 fuel
Thats 135 fuel > Russian tank hull.
Olso T-34 > stug.
2. How can AI be Overpowered? Is he too smart?
3. ISU-152 has a 152mm gun. Its shells are more than 4 times heavier than 88mm.
Its not a unit like the jagdpanther tank destroyer. Its a multi purpose gun that should support lighter T-34 from discance destroying any emplacements / slow tanks.
4. Russians cant have an early mg becouse they could then cap 50% of the map and lock it down too quickly.
6. The whole point of russian army is that you can take a few casualties and not worry about it. Medic bunkers cant heal so why should outposts.
8. You can throw satchel charges at decrewed guns. Whats stopping you?
9. Russians didnt create well trained elite units. Some russians had better equipment and were battle hardened. Russians had no time to train their units as much as commandos, rangers, airborne, stormtroopen.

I liked the 5 suggestion "Securing resources and building OPs". When being supported by the British soviets have some secured (by UK trucks) points and benefit from that.
They should be able to secure on their own.

Um, Russians can't lock anything down, so I don't know what you mean by they can cap 50% of the map and then lock it down quickly. It basically mimics the offensives made by the Russians during the war.

They swarm over, get beat down, retreat, do it again until it works.

HaroldSax wrote:
Um, Russians can't lock anything down, so I don't know what you mean by they can cap 50% of the map and then lock it down quickly. It basically mimics the offensives made by the Russians during the war.

They swarm over, get beat down, retreat, do it again until it works.

Heavy MGs "lock down" areas with their arc of fire.
If you can capture all heavy fuel points quickly (quicker than wermaht) and set up MGs to defend them germans will get out-teched and loose.
In other words a moblie russian HMG would overpower russians.

This is the best post Ive read on this forum. His ten points are absolutely right.

The AI is WAY to overpowered, that deffo needs fixing asap.

I agree with him on the MGs, and just about everything else, except the thing about guards.

Paciat wrote:
1. Teching up is not slow:
Escalate to Assault Phase costs 85 fuel
Wehrmacht Quarters 15 fuel
Sturm Armory 35 fuel
Thats 135 fuel > Russian tank hull.
Olso T-34 > stug.
2. How can AI be Overpowered? Is he too smart?
3. ISU-152 has a 152mm gun. Its shells are more than 4 times heavier than 88mm.
Its not a unit like the jagdpanther tank destroyer. Its a multi purpose gun that should support lighter T-34 from discance destroying any emplacements / slow tanks.
4. Russians cant have an early mg becouse they could then cap 50% of the map and lock it down too quickly.
6. The whole point of russian army is that you can take a few casualties and not worry about it. Medic bunkers cant heal so why should outposts.
8. You can throw satchel charges at decrewed guns. Whats stopping you?
9. Russians didnt create well trained elite units. Some russians had better equipment and were battle hardened. Russians had no time to train their units as much as commandos, rangers, airborne, stormtroopen.

I liked the 5 suggestion "Securing resources and building OPs". When being supported by the British soviets have some secured (by UK trucks) points and benefit from that.
They should be able to secure on their own.

Okay firstly i want to thank you that you have agreed at least with one of mine suggestions, this shows that you are not completely blind, but as for the rest...

1. Yes teching up is slow
As you said Wehrmacht needs two upgrades - Escalate to Skirmish Phase (35fuel) + Escalate to Assault Phase (50fuel) than build a Sturm Armory (35fuel) and build a single Stug (50fuel)...that makes in total 170 fuel.
Red Army needs on the other hand "only" 115 fuel to build a tank hall + 70 fuel to build a single t-34/76. That make in total 185 fuel. It seems quite fairly balanced, but where is the problem then? I will tell you...the problem is soviets dont have secured resourcing, so it means you will have your 185 fuel when Wehrmacht player will have at a same time 2 or 3 times that much.
2. AI can be overpowered by many means...for instance by seemingly having lowered prices to build their units. This AI has improved accuracy i think as well, so any shot he will fire, if its from tank or whatever its a direct hit. And lastly i hate those tank charges to my tanks when we are firing at each other from point blank range. If you did not noticed the AI changes from vanilla CoH i doubt that youve played it sometime.
3. Yeah i know how heavy ISU has shells, anyway ive posted it originally...and yeah it should support lighter tanks in battle thats for sure...so you then agree with me. But as you stated it should be firing from distance, though it has only limited firing distance and view distance like two meters, so it couldnt be done. And the worst thing is it has poor accuracy, so when it finally fires its a big chance it will miss...
4. Look russians could capture more than 50% of map and hold it effectively even without an mg or mg nest...if needed only with sheer numbers of their Conscripts and help of Sharpshooters they are able to repel waves of Axis in early-game. But by the time Axis has some armor thats the downfall of soviets. You need to regroup and hold your ground untill some tanks of your own will arrive...and they will not arrive so soon, because you could not secure your resurces, as ive mentioned above. So yes you have more than half of a map, yes the teching looks balanced, but Wehrmacht will allways have more profit because of the OPs and they will eventually push you back, maybe even to your HQ. So the MGs will not be any significant boost to soviets as long as there is no secured resourcing for them thats for sure.
6. Yeah medic bunkers could not heal, but they are collecting dead and in time you will get a new, fresh squad. Lets see it this way Wehrmacht soldiers all have a med-kit so they frankly dont need a heal unit. US soldiers have a Triage center that heals and a Medic station that works same as Wehrmachts Medic bunker. PE on the other hand can secure a house and refill their squads and with an upgrade they are even healed there...why it cant be used this way? With and upgrade you could refill your squad there and heal them same as PE can.
8. One thing is stopping me...no one except Ingenery have a satchel charge and you even need to upgrade them to Sturmovie Ingenery...did you even played this mod??
9. Well i personally think that the best training is on the battlefield and not somewhere in an old hut half the earth from conflict shooting on some wooden dummies. I think when they are battle hardened and have better equipment thats sufficient enough to call them elite. ;)

Last edited February 2, 2010 at 12:54 PM by Strayker

I agree with Strayker.
Wehrmacht are too strong. As he already sad,when you have enough to build tank hall and a T34,Wehrmacht have several puma's and stug's already,then you can only win on map like "Moscow" (3 approaches,very easy to cover them) but on open area... Soviet infantry is very inaccurate in: close,midrange,long range. This couldn't be very big  handicap if all soviet cost are lowerd by half.

Last edited February 3, 2010 at 6:22 PM by Foxfort

I have another suggestion and some glitches to share...

As for the suggestion...i think the ZIS-2 AT gun is good, ive posted some things here already that could improve it a lil bit, but anyway to the point...when one of crew members is killed, recruiting new one will cost you 110 which is like one third of the AT gun...thats too expensive. In comparison a Wehrmachts AT gun crew member recruiting cost is i think 57 manpower, which is much more suitable to cost of that PAK 38. Another thing is that as soviet you cant recrew your weapons...so this should be compensate for cheaper recruiting of crew members and reduced build times...the cost of AT gun itself is ok...300 is fine, the gun is very effective and deserves so many manpower.

And now for those glitches...
1. If one squad member of Sharpshooter team is killed and you have stationed them in some good cover (green) and they are in ambush mode, when you recruit the other one to refill the squad there happens a glitch that makes one of them visible, you can swith the ambush mode how many times you want and always one of them will be visible. Though sometimes ive happened to get them both back to invisible state...

2. I dont know if this is a glitch but ive noticed that mortar squad is absolutely expensive...at first they cost 350 if my memory is right and they dont have the barrage ability, which is ok, but they dont have a attack ground ability as well, which makes them absolutely usefull. So you need to upgrade them with "Balistics veterans" upgrade as soon as possible, that makes possible the barrage ability and smoke screen abilty, but the cost is little too much, i mean who will built this mortar for 437 manpower? For that much manpower i can built a T-34...

3. The "Not one step back" icon of Urban Combat Strategy looks as same as Wehrmachts Propaganda icon.

Last edited February 5, 2010 at 12:15 PM by Strayker