Idea: Foreign Troop Barracks

This is just an idea that would differentiate the Ostheer from the "western" Wehrmacht. My proposal is a building where you can train a series of non-German soldiers, it would go as followed from worst to best unit.
Anti-Communist Squad: 230 MP, A squad of volunteers ranging from France and deep into the Soviet Union consisting of anti-Communists who have sympathized with the Germans. They are poorly trained but are experts at stealth and sabotage. Most of them have little to do with the Germans; it is the common hated of Bolshevism that bonds these men together to volunteer for the Ostheer. They should be used as cannon fodder and little more.
Italian Alpini (Mountain Troops): MP 290. Italy's best soldiers have been sent to the eastern front. They are very well trasined although not for the Siberian steppes, but they still are harsh fighters.
Finish Sniper: MP 560, only can have one at a time. A counter to the Soviet Sniper Ace, his man has a lot of hatred against the Soviets and many years of practice in the Winter War has given this man a deadly aimed, although he shouldn't be sqaundered by being thrown into a pitched gunfight. He can also plant explosives and look through binoculars.

is a good idea,but dont forguet of spaniards :P

and Romanina

Perhaps they would be thrown into the anti-Communist squad.

Anti-Communist squads should be infiltrators with poor weapons, and grief-causing weapons like flamenades and anti-building grenades.

Italian troops would have fire-up and maybe use satchels.

Finnish troops should be squads of riflemen with crazy accuracy (so you want to use them defensively, which is what they mostly did, and crazily well). Ambush would probably be a must, and giving them the option of upgrading with a LMG42 would be nice.

Spaniards could be a mix of anti-Communists and Fins. Very good at combat, somewhat more difficult to suppress than most other troops in the game, and nice assault options like grenades or suppressing fire. Basically, a squad good at assaulting, the opposite of Fins. Could be upgraded with MP40s.



Basically, a mix of units you can put together according to your taste and needs. Need defensive power? Fins and Spaniards. Wanna try infiltration? Anti-Communists and any of the assault squads (Italians and Spaniards). Assault? Same as before.

posible skins use this unifons photos

the first photo is a spaniards group in heer and the second is a spaniards waffen ss uniforn.

Last edited January 24, 2010 at 3:00 AM by hernan cortes

the Fins and Romanians i can see in the Ostheer, but im ignorant about the Itallian and Spanish participation in World War 2, i wasnt aware the Spanish and Itallians fought against the Russians on the eastern front.

Franco gave the Blue Division, and the Italians... well... "helped" just like the Romanians in giving way for the 6th Armee to be surrounded.

As for the foreign volunteers, can't overlook the Norwegians who comprised a significant force for SS-Gebirgsjager units, especially in Finland.

Last edited January 24, 2010 at 10:20 AM by Ohmega

Ohmega wrote:and the Italians... well... "helped" just like the Romanians in giving way for the 6th Armee to be surrounded.

They couldn´t do shit about it. Read "Stalingrad" by Antony Beevor. The Romanians had two obsolete AT guns to cover a front of dozens of kilometers when the Russians attacked with dozens of tanks and hundreds of men. Just like the rest of the German Army, they were abandoned completely by Hitler´s insanity about imaginary reinforcements.

Saavedra wrote:
They couldn´t do shit about it. Read "Stalingrad" by Antony Beevor. The Romanians had two obsolete AT guns to cover a front of dozens of kilometers when the Russians attacked with dozens of tanks and hundreds of men. Just like the rest of the German Army, they were abandoned completely by Hitler´s insanity about imaginary reinforcements.

I prefer The Fall of Berlin 1945 myself. Never said Romanians/Italians/Green People from Planet 49 could hold the Soviet attack. Just pointing out that it wasn't the Romanians alone (who in fairness never wanted to go east of Odessa) in allowing Operation Uranus to succeed.

As for the Spaniards, would there be a distinguishing between the Blue Division and the Falangists who made up the Blue Legion?

Ohmega wrote:As for the Spaniards, would there be a distinguishing between the Blue Division and the Falangists who made up the Blue Legion?

If you mean a visual distinction, I don´t think so. It seems both units wore Wehrmacht uniforms with a few Spanish-looking patches.

So, take Grenadiers and Volks and put some Spanish insignia on them, and you are done.

that's just crap! I'd rather have some new Romanians that look nice and pretty than slap a little star on the voks!

Hungarians, Romanians, Croatians, Bulgaria, Italians and the Finnish all contributed to Barbarossa.

The Finnish first fought the Soviets, then the Germans. Their ski troops were quite elite. Everyone talks about Vasily Zaytsev and how he was the best sniper of the war, but a Finnish soldier actually had more kills. Around 500 if I recall correctly, and he used no scope on his rifle.

Hungarians and Romanians were pretty much forced by Hitler to send troops, but the Italians sent some of their best troops to the front. They were elite mountain infantry, and were sadly used on battlefields with no mountains.

Waffen SS actively recruited Croatians, and they sent a "legion" to the front.

Didn't know about the Spanish, pretty interesting.

Definitely be very cool to see some special units representing other countries in the future.

Just want to say, I'd love to have the Spaniards in the game since I reenact with them.  I would say that they might be too small to be in the game, plus most of them were pulled out by Franco when the fortunes of war changed.  Still it'd be awesome. 

One thing I would say, is have them be equipped with PPSH instead of MP40s.  From what I've read, they actually had a firebrigade that was equipped with those.

As for uniforms,  its obviously too small of a detail for the game, but they were notorious for lax standards compared to the Germans and wearing their blue shirt collars on the outside of the tunic.

yeah and thats IT! That means that the DEVS would just slap a shiney new star on the Volks give them even worse stats and send them off to the front! I'd rather see some new Romanians in this mod (it's a lot better than just putting a star on the volks)

ford_prefect wrote:
yeah and thats IT! That means that the DEVS would just slap a shiney new star on the Volks give them even worse stats and send them off to the front! I'd rather see some new Romanians in this mod (it's a lot better than just putting a star on the volks)

What the hell are you talking about?

The Spaniards fought on the German side, so no stars. Also, a good part of the Blue Division was formed by veterans of the Spanish Civil War, and most of it was composed of volunteers. In the one large battle I know they fought, they killed three times their number, while outnumbered. So there is no reason whatsoever to give them worse stats than Volks.

Unlike Romanians and maybe Italians, the Spaniards were not cannon fodder.

"So, take Grenadiers and Volks and put some Spanish insignia on them, and you are done."
that was a post you made a few days ago ON THE SAME TOPIC ;D
no I do not believe in this 

When you take them in the other nations must be something new not just an other type of infantry with new skins , they should be some special like Italian alpini , but they must use special abilities maybe some kind if melee infantry.

ford_prefect wrote:
"So, take Grenadiers and Volks and put some Spanish insignia on them, and you are done."
that was a post you made a few days ago ON THE SAME TOPIC ;D
no I do not believe in this

Saavedra wrote:

Ohmega wrote:As for the Spaniards, would there be a distinguishing between the Blue Division and the Falangists who made up the Blue Legion?

If you mean a visual distinction, I don´t think so. It seems both units wore Wehrmacht uniforms with a few Spanish-looking patches.

So, take Grenadiers and Volks and put some Spanish insignia on them, and you are done.

So, turns out that you can´t read, and you don´t double-check before putting other people´s words to test. Because if you had, you would notice I am NOT asking for re-skinned Volks with WORSE stats, as you said.

Also, in case you haven´t noticed, Romanians can be added together with the Spaniards. There is no need to compete, so quit saying "oh, I´d rather have X than Y!" That makes you sound like a douchebag, which you probably are given the evidence above.

(And just in case, I´ll repeat that "stars" do not figure within the Spanish Blue Division iconography.)

Saavedra wrote:
Anti-Communist squads should be infiltrators with poor weapons, and grief-causing weapons like flamenades and anti-building grenades.

Italian troops would have fire-up and maybe use satchels.

Finnish troops should be squads of riflemen with crazy accuracy (so you want to use them defensively, which is what they mostly did, and crazily well). Ambush would probably be a must, and giving them the option of upgrading with a LMG42 would be nice.

Spaniards could be a mix of anti-Communists and Fins. Very good at combat, somewhat more difficult to suppress than most other troops in the game, and nice assault options like grenades or suppressing fire. Basically, a squad good at assaulting, the opposite of Fins. Could be upgraded with MP40s.



Basically, a mix of units you can put together according to your taste and needs. Need defensive power? Fins and Spaniards. Wanna try infiltration? Anti-Communists and any of the assault squads (Italians and Spaniards). Assault? Same as before.

Most Weapons used by the Finn's were of Soviet Origin, as they scavanged most of them from the fallen enemy soldiers..

Great idea!

Hitler didnt like using forein troops, but they had to becuase nearer 1942 they were lacking in manpower.

Also wasnt the Chechs and Hungarians??

Also could the russians get some polish dudes, maybe when osteer are out you could add a new barracks to each faction and say 3 - 4 new units, all varying and forien. as forien troops were used alot!

WolfDK1984 wrote:
Most Weapons used by the Finn's were of Soviet Origin, as they scavanged most of them from the fallen enemy soldiers..

So, Mausers combined with DPS machineguns instead of with LMG42s?

I love the idea, in fact, making a specialized "foreign" army building would be a nice change and differ from other factions, or giving a building a different unit per doctrine. Definitely Romanians and Croats, and perhaps Finns too, 
I`d love to see Spanish civil war mod, but here in EF it`would be too much to ask of them.

Saavedra wrote:

Ohmega wrote:As for the Spaniards, would there be a distinguishing between the Blue Division and the Falangists who made up the Blue Legion?

If you mean a visual distinction, I don´t think so. It seems both units wore Wehrmacht uniforms with a few Spanish-looking patches.

So, take Grenadiers and Volks and put some Spanish insignia on them, and you are done.

"    "So, take Grenadiers and Volks and put some Spanish insignia on them, and you are done."
    that was a post you made a few days ago ON THE SAME TOPIC ;D
    no I do not believe in this
go to page one of this topic you posted that. and by stars I meant that little yellow patch

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and just because someone does not agree with you about your little Spanish troops does not make them a "douchebag"

PS: you still have not answered my question about when Spain even technically got in the war

Last edited January 26, 2010 at 11:23 PM by ford_prefect

And THEN you said THIS:

ford_prefect wrote:
yeah and thats IT! That means that the DEVS would just slap a shiney new star on the Volks give them even worse stats and send them off to the front!

To which I answered with THIS:

Saavedra wrote:
The Spaniards fought on the German side, so no stars. Also, a good part of the Blue Division was formed by veterans of the Spanish Civil War, and most of it was composed of volunteers. In the one large battle I know they fought, they killed three times their number, while outnumbered. So there is no reason whatsoever to give them worse stats than Volks.

Are you retarded?

The Spaniards used a pretty similar uniform to the Wehrmacht, which is why I suggested that they keep a uniform similar to the Wehrmacht. Then, you said the devs would give them worse stats, to which I replied that it did not make any sense given their record.

And then you keep insisting that my thinking they should have similar uniforms somehow means I think they should have worse stats. Because you directly use my ideas for VISUAL DISTINCTION to somehow say that I think Spanish troops should have worse stats.

So kindly shut up and LEARN.TO.READ.

ford_prefect is a antispanish troll.

you see worse stats ok,compare this whit another unit in only two years:

2 Knight Crosses (one with Oak Leaves)

2 Golden Crosses

138 Iron Crosses First Class

2,359 Iron Crosses Second Class and

2,216 War Merit Crosses with Swords.

Saacedra judging by your picture your about 8 or 15 so..LOL and also you are a Spaniard. Yes I do think that the Spanish will
1.) use the same uniform as the German Volks (like you even said they would :P)
2.) have worse stats than MOST German soldiers
(3,000 shiny awards nice out of how many men?)

ford_prefect wrote:
Saacedra judging by your picture your about 8 or 15 so..LOL and also you are a Spaniard. Yes I do think that the Spanish will
1.) use the same uniform as the German Volks (like you even said they would :P)
2.) have worse stats than MOST German soldiers
(3,000 shiny awards nice out of how many men?)

Out of about 18,000. That's about 1 award for every 6 men. And you didn't imply they'd have worse stats than MOST German soldiers, you said they'd have worse stats than volksgrenadiers. Nice moving goalposts there.

I'm with ford.
Just because you can't read, doesn't allow you to call him a douchbag.
I'll explain it for you spaniards:

Spanish soldiers in Eastern Front mod would look like German soldiers.
They'd have the same weaponry.
They'd propably have the same stats and same abilities.

So what's the reason to add them? For medals?
Uhhhh, my grandfather also earned the Eiserne Kreuz II. Klasse and also a sh*tload of badges and other awards.
I WANT MY GRANDFATHER IN EASTERN FRONT!!11!

Seriously, get yourself a skinpack and everybody would be fine.

I still think that a small amount of foreign troops should be added, but they have to add to the Ostheer and not replacing or doubling Germans. Maybe the Italien Alpinis (of course with donkeys!!), the Croats (perhaps as skilled workers/pioneers and also "cannonfooder", like conscripts) and finns (cause they had their own equipment).

Take a look at my concept!

I can call him a douchebag because he IS one, and keeps proving it.

Also, no, the Blue Division would not look the same, have the same weaponry and have the same stats and abilities as all the other units. In the first fu**ing page of this topic, I suggested a way of differentiating ALL foreign troops, not just the ones you guys suggested to the exclusion of others.

You can add details to Grenadier squads to make them stand out from their counterparts like blue scarves (that cloth they wear around their neck) or a palette swap for their uniform (make them look dark grey instead of light blue). I suggested they could be armed with MP40s (seen many Grenadiers with MP40s around? ) and have greater suppression resistance while having something similar to BAR suppression (seen many German units with that skill? ).

And I did this not only for the Spaniards, but for all nations mentioned by the OP.

Also, you are forgetting that work on foreign troops hasn´t even started. A lot could be changed, we are just brainstorming, and the chances of Spaniards being put in the mod exactly as I specified are next to zero. Same with the other nations.

By the way, try and justify why the Italians, the Croats and the Finns should be added, but not the Spaniards, or the ROMANIANS (shit, out of all the foreign troops, you forgot the ones who took a beating together with the Germans in the Stalingrad battlezone? ).


Also, the medals thing did not come around as a reason to include them in the mod, it came around as a justification of why they wouldn´t have worse stats than Volks even if we used the same model, reskinned. Nice touch, though, bringing your grandfather and his medals into a discussion about VIDEOGAMES. I´m sure he earned them so you could use him to prove a point here.





Now, to deal with ford:

Stop trolling, you idiot. My avatar, age and nationality have shit all to do with this discussion. As do yours.

Last edited January 27, 2010 at 10:57 AM by Saavedra

There were over 3 million Eiserne Kreuze II. Klasse.  ::)
Spanish earned 2.000 of them? And they were over 18.000 men?
In my opinion, that proves nothing.

Also, making the Spanish kind of elite unit, though they were anything but that, does not justify to put them in.

My point is, I wouldn't mind if they were added, but the way you behave, crying for spaniards and insulting everybody who brings valid arguments doesn't prove your point. (In the end, I think you're the troll.)

Fact is they fought with German weaponry.
Fact is they wear nearly the same uniform (you searching for minor indifferences like a fucking small little blue badge does prove it).
Fact is they weren't any elite unit.
Fact is they didn't contribute a huge amount of noticeable "help" to Nazi-Germany.


Also, you can't add douzens of infantry units to the Ostheer.
This means, you have to concentrate on the important units and those who are worth adding.

QuoteI´m sure he earned them so you could use him to prove a point here.

What do you mean by this phrase? He's already dead, like the majority of the Wehrmacht and survivors of the Second World War (in any country).
So sorry, he won't call you and tell his story.

Last edited January 27, 2010 at 11:27 AM by Aouch

Fact is they weren't any elite unit,ummmmmm no you have reason the italians and romanians are elite unit.

No, but Romanians could be: Cheap Pioneers and cannonfodder (I doubt you'd like it if I suggest Spaniards to take this role) and Italiens have their Alpini, and yep, they actually were kinda elite unit, similiar to German Gebirgsjäger, but they were used in mostly flat regions, so they never were used in their basic role, were they would have certainly succed and done much better.
Also, I never said I want them. I said maybe they could be added.

What you're trying to do with the spaniards:
Making them look like German soldiers.
Making them bear German weaponry.
Making them "elite", so that at least there's one thing which could justify adding them.
This doesn't sound very smart to me.


I'll leave this discussion now, maybe I'll accept Spanish when you come up with real valid points instead of insulting other people.

Last edited January 27, 2010 at 11:41 AM by Aouch

Aouch wrote:
There were over 3 million Eiserne Kreuze II. Klasse.  ::)
Spanish earned 2.000 of them? And they were over 18.000 men?
In my opinion, that proves nothing.

Thank God your opinion is not fact.

QuoteAlso, making the Spanish kind of elite unit, though they were anything but that, does not justify to put them in.

Uhmmmm... a good number of them were veterans of the Spanish Civil War, and many were volunteers. In their largest engagement, they killed three times their number.

That´s pretty fucking elite.

QuoteMy point is, I wouldn't mind if they were added, but the way you behave, crying for spaniards and insulting everybody who brings valid arguments doesn't prove your point. (In the end, I think you're the troll.)

I don´t cry for Spaniards. I wouldn´t mind if they weren´t added if the Devs found they couldn´t do it, or had more important things to do, or found other nations more interesting to add.

Ford has brought SHIT points forth for not adding them, and so have you.

QuoteFact is they fought with German weaponry.
Fact is they wear nearly the same uniform (you searching for minor indifferences like a fucking small little blue badge does prove it).

Brainstorming. Are you familiar with this term? It means putting forth early ideas that can be built upon or modified. Guess what this topic is about?

QuoteFact is they weren't any elite unit.

Fact is they performed excellently. Also, if we could only add elite units in this mod, then we would have to add the Waffen SS. I´m sure that would sit well with everyone, hmmmmm?

QuoteFact is they didn't contribute a huge amount of noticeable "help" to Nazi-Germany.

Ok.

First point? Romanians and Italians were shit most of the time, and the Italians in particular STRAINED the Germans´ forces in Europe. They helped as much as a toddler pushing back against something about to crush you helped.

Second point? Only four Sherman Crocodiles EVER, yet you can build them by the dozen. Stickies look more like Saving Private Ryan´s explosive socks, but I doubt the Americans used that often. You can use V1s against enemy troops even though they were used against Great Britain´s home island.

Think carefully about these two points.

QuoteAlso, you can't add douzens of infantry units to the Ostheer.
This means, you have to concentrate on the important units and those who are worth adding.

In that case, change Italian soldiers for Italian TANKS, use Finns as infiltrators and snipers, Romanians as cannon fodder, Croats for whatever they were supposed to be, and Spaniards for assault/defense troops.

You can make units WORTH adding. BRAINSTORMING.

Quote

QuoteI´m sure he earned them so you could use him to prove a point here.

What do you mean by this phrase? He's already dead, like the majority of the Wehrmacht and survivors of the Second World War (in any country).
So sorry, he won't call you and tell his story.

The idea with that phrase was that it was DISRESPECTFUL on your part to mention your grandfather to win an INTERNET DISCUSSION ON VIDEOGAMES.

But I guess you don´t have too much reading comprehension.

Aouch wrote:My point is, I wouldn't mind if they were added, but the way you behave,...

Then don't make it this big of an issue and don't claim you're "with Ford on this" given that he's made it abundantly clear he would mind.

The Blue Division is pretty much a given for an interesting call in unit in an Ostheer design that makes heavy use of foreign troops.

There were f*cking french too (Division Charlemagne). But only 7000 men.

I think you could make a Doctrine's unit like "Finish Troops", and rewards units to replace it, like Spanish troops, italians troops, french troops...
It wouldn't be too difficult to do, because lots of them weared the German uniform (just need a new texture per country).

(Sorry fo my English)

"Thank God your opinion is not fact."
"Ford has brought SHIT points forth for not adding them, and so have you"
"fucking"
"Romanians and Italians were shit most of the time"
"DISRESPECTFUL" In all caps thought that was rather ironic ;D
If someone swears that much in one posts and mocks everyone on the forum, thinks that this mod is based on "enemy at the gates" and insults someone's grandfather I honestly think he's the troll.

Hm, I like it :) Then I dont have to send in my poor German troops into battle, ill just send my French conscripts  ;D :P

I think the Germans did it  ;D:

From wikipedia (about the LVF: legion of the French volunteers):
"Fin novembre, les deux premiers bataillons arrivent en Russie. Ils montent en première ligne [...]. Ils sont décimés par les combats et surtout par le froid intense."
trans: "In November, they arrive in Russia, and they are sent to the frontline. They are decimated by battles, and cold."

(sorry for my poor english  :-[ )

ford_prefect wrote:
"Thank God your opinion is not fact."
"Ford has brought SHIT points forth for not adding them, and so have you"
"fucking"
"Romanians and Italians were shit most of the time"
"DISRESPECTFUL" In all caps thought that was rather ironic ;D
If someone swears that much in one posts and mocks everyone on the forum, thinks that this mod is based on "enemy at the gates" and insults someone's grandfather I honestly think he's the troll.

At least I don´t take sentences out of context to tergiversate their meaning, like saying that I insult someone´s grandfather after having written the word "DISRESPECTFUL" which, in context, meant that it was disrespectful to use a loved one´s memor (and a condecorated soldier, too) to win an internet discussion about a videogame. Something incredibly trivial.

If you were not SO MIND-BOGGINGLY RETARDED, or a troll of vein-bursting proportions, you would also notice that this mod DOES have huge nods to Enemy at the Gates (like only half a squad of conscripts being armed with rifles or the sniper ace in the Urban Combat doctrine AND THE DOCTRINE´S VERY IMAGE IN THE MENU).

If you had any common sense, you would not talk as if everyone here was stupid. EVERYONE who has seen the movie has noticed these nods.

You would also need to fold reality into itself to make stating the fact that these nods exist into an insult to the mod. Anyone who has played vCoH has noticed that the game has clichés that some people might be offended by, like the hilariously psychopathic/fanatic talk of the German troops. But these clichés give the game a certain charm. It is the same with the mod and these nods.



If it wasn´t because you are outrageously MORONIC, I would agree with you that I´m not being too respectful by swearing so much. But you are a troll of such skill that it is difficult not to fly into a rage.

I mean, either you are the most stupid person I´ve met on the Internet (and I´ve been around for a while), or you are a troll trying to sabotage the mod. In both cases, do us all a favour and go die in a fire.

This discussion has gotten out of hand, LOCKED

Saavedra wrote:

Now, to deal with ford:

Stop trolling