Partisans vs Black Sea marines

I don't really get the Partisans. Those were farmers that picked up guns. But in EF they are better equipped and trained than the regular German soldiers?

I think they should keep the partisans, but as a ambush/demolish/stealth unit and also put in the awesome Black Sea Marines. (* leave out the freaking flametrhowerupgrade for engineers!)

Maybe a paradrop unit, capable of upgrading with PTR AT guns (much like the US airborne, but less strong, no re enforcement through air, elite unit)

Any thoughts?

I think black sea marines could be interesting maybe with special water abilities.

The Red Army did not use paratroopers.


Also, Partisans should be armed with a mix of weapons, instead of all armed with PPSH. Something like a mix of rifles and SMGs, maybe one or two men with pistols or with no weapons at all.

The Red Army used paratroopers ("descenders" - десантники, desantniki), but never successfully.
Naval Infantrymen are more famous in the Second World War.

Last edited January 23, 2010 at 5:04 PM by UeArtemis

http://www.2worldwar2.com/russia.htm and http://www.1jma.dk/articles/1jmaarticlesww2russiaparatroops.htm

facts i guess.

Russia trained millions of paratroopers. I thought they were black sea marines, but they were normal troops aswell. Giving them paratroopers should be fun.

The red army did use paratroopers, not much though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paratrooper#Russia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Airborne_Troops#Interwar_and_World_War_II

So paratroopers are not a bad idea.

One problem,

How to implement it in the game ?

My idea 6 man squad

4 rifles
2 Mg's

upgraded to

2 rifles
2 Mg's
2 PTR's

When upgraded they lose effectiveness vs infantry.

Abilities
- upgrade to PTR (at guns)
- Suppression unblock, heriocchargy (something like that)

Saavedra wrote:
The Red Army did not use paratroopers.


Also, Partisans should be armed with a mix of weapons, instead of all armed with PPSH. Something like a mix of rifles and SMGs, maybe one or two men with pistols or with no weapons at all.

they don't have all PSSH's scroll down and pres alt and you will see a bunch of guns

red army used para drops!!!!! airborne units born in ww2 and become elite in the same war!!!!  cause soviet army had in WW2 long range aviation why they had no airborne units??)

Polkovnik_Petr wrote:
The red army did use paratroopers, not much though.

So paratroopers are not a bad idea.

This is a mod based on Enemy at the Gates, and the most famous Russian method of war. I don´t see the incredibly obscure Russian paratroopers EVER being implemented.

Nevermind the fact that that would be stepping on the American Airborne´s toes, and the Russians are already stepping pretty hard on the Brits´.

Russians were the first to use gliders effectively in combat. Though this would cause all Brit players to scream bloody murder if a glider was ever within the Soviet's reach.

Quote

This is a mod based on Enemy at the Gates, and the most famous Russian method of war.

This mod is definitely not and should not under any circumstances be "based" on Enemy at the Gates. The whole thing is a joke to anyone even remotely familiar with military history.

Quote
I don´t see the incredibly obscure Russian paratroopers EVER being implemented.

Nevermind the fact that that would be stepping on the American Airborne´s toes, and the Russians are already stepping pretty hard on the Brits´.

You said that the Soviets did not use paratroopers and that's where the replies contradicting you came from. In actual fact the Soviets were the second to experiment with airborne forces (after the Italians) and the first to use them on a large scale basis. In any event, there's plenty of potential for Soviet airborne forces in this mod. They could certainly be implemented in a way where they wouldn't have overlapping roles with American paratroopers.

Yep, that would be great!

Crying "Polundra!!!!", "black demons" will rush the enemy without any fear :)

Very nice uniform indeed.

"This is a mod based on Enemy at the Gates, and the most famous Russian method of war. I don´t see the incredibly obscure Russian paratroopers EVER being implemented"
Saavedra do not EVER say that again you just puked on every person who likes this mod and every single dev.

Well, this mod isn't realistic, so it is based on "Enemy at the Gates" stereotypes.

Ipazza wrote:
One problem,

How to implement it in the game ?

My idea 6 man squad

4 rifles
2 Mg's

upgraded to

2 rifles
2 Mg's
2 PTR's

When upgraded they lose effectiveness vs infantry.

Abilities
- upgrade to PTR (at guns)
- Suppression unblock, heriocchargy (something like that)

not bad , but
6 men with pps 43 , cause pps 43 1 of the favourite soviets tank crews  and airborne sub-machine-guns  , it kewl for diversions cause it silenced (in game just like sten smg for british commando units)
oh yes just forgot - upgrade is AT grenades like guardians but upgrade costs - 125 munition and each grenade throw costs - 100 munition .

Last edited January 24, 2010 at 9:46 AM by stufu

I think that paratroopers is a bad idea. Marines are better.

ford_prefect wrote:
"This is a mod based on Enemy at the Gates, and the most famous Russian method of war. I don´t see the incredibly obscure Russian paratroopers EVER being implemented"
Saavedra do not EVER say that again you just puked on every person who likes this mod and every single dev.

I didn´t puke on anybody. What are you, blind? LOOK AT THE DAMN UNITS. Conscripts start with half the rifles (Enemy at the Gates, later copied in Call of Duty), and the elite unit for the Urban Combat strategy is a sniper. In fact, look at the doctrine´s image. It´s similar to Vassily Zaitsev as seen in Enemy at the Gates. And I say similar only because that image is a collage so I can´t be 100% sure, it actually DOES seem to have been taken straight from the movie. That little button on the cloak is a familiar detail to me.

Also, maybe you haven´t noticed, but Company of Heroes as a whole is full of stereotypes. It´s part of its charm.




The contribution of Russian paratroopers to the war was obscure, if not negligible, compared to everyone else.

UeArtemis wrote:
I think that paratroopers is a bad idea. Marines are better.

That would just give them another unit, strelky + PTR crew would be the same.

I think giving them the airdrop edge through a docterine would be awesome. Good part about russians is that you cant get a flashmob of airbornes that are 3 time promoted and unstopable.

Allyes already had airborn troops - Amyes.
Axis have no such.

I think it is bad idea to add more new airborn to alyes.

But "black devils" would be very fresh and interesting unit, "onether infantry" with additional scills.

Last edited January 24, 2010 at 1:09 PM by Artillerist

Yes that wouldnt be like Men of War at all if we were to add "Black Devils"

Yep, they would be beautifull:




Doctrined squad:

officer (with nagant pistol)
DP LMG
Mosin-nagant
2 PPSh

Last edited January 24, 2010 at 1:24 PM by Artillerist

I would really like to see Black See marines, DemoSS actually made that skin if I remember correctly, and it could be a nice reword unit, perhaps a replacement for Guards?

Its kind of a theme to have at least 1 'famous' unit for each faction

Brits - Commandos

Americans - Rangers/Paratroopers

Whermacht - Stormtroopers

Panzer Elite - Luftwaffe/Fallshimjager

Soviet Union - Black Sea Marines? Possibly... Though i sort of feel like Black Sea Marines are wanted because of the Men of War expansion, did they take place in any battles that relate to the [EF] Maps at all?

Soviet Marines  :P

CommissarGears wrote:
Its kind of a theme to have at least 1 'famous' unit for each faction

Brits - Commandos

Americans - Rangers/Paratroopers

Whermacht - Stormtroopers

Panzer Elite - Luftwaffe/Fallshimjager

Soviet Union - Black Sea Marines? Possibly... Though i sort of feel like Black Sea Marines are wanted because of the Men of War expansion, did they take place in any battles that relate to the [EF] Maps at all?

Sevastopol' for sure, Leningrad too I believe.

"Black Devils" - Marine Infantry of BlackSea Fleet, NorthSea Fleet, BalticSea Fleet were wide used all over Eastern front, especially in 42-43, in Battles of Crymea, Stalingrad, and in Murmansk area, on the far North.

I could search my docs, if You interested more...

I was just wondering if they were used in any major operations and i got my answer. 

Black Sea Marines it is then lol. Would be cool, buts its a bit late to add them  :P

They even defended Moscow!

This is a mod based on Enemy at the Gates, and the most famous Russian method of war. I don´t see the incredibly obscure Russian paratroopers EVER being implemented.
[/quote]
Its olso based on a german Stalingrad movie (1990).
Double urban warfare flamethrowers, T-34 tank riders.
Stalingrad : Battle Against T 34 Tank In The Snow (HQ)
Stalingrad movie - Storming the Factory

Last edited January 26, 2010 at 11:02 AM by Paciat

My regiment, 94 Guards "Name of Zvenigorodka and Berlin" Order of Suvorov II class Infantry Divisoon, was formed in Stalingrad in april 1943, exactly meging two Naval Infantry Brigades, wich came from Blacksea Fleet and Pacific Ocean Fleet Fleet, and fought very well trough sept.42-febr.43 in Stalingrad.

Good info You may find here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Infantry_(Russia)

Actually, Naval Infantry will suit much more for Urban Doctrine then Partisans, because NI got its HUGE part of its fame mainly in URBAN Battles, like two battles at Sevastopol, Stalingrad and Leningrad defence, Novorossijsk. Partisans were fighting mainly in woods of Belarus and Ukraine, and preferred to stay away from sityes and even large villages.

Last edited January 25, 2010 at 3:14 PM by Artillerist

May have a point here.  Every side seems to get its doctrinal elite units.  Partisans are cool but in reality I doubt locals would be so willing to help out the red army once they left Russia.

My best vote for Soviet doctrinal elite infantry unit - Naval Infantry.

Partisans are a great unit for the Soviet faction but Black Sea Marines would be also a very, very good addition. Maybe they could be the equivalent to the Axis' Storms?

If anything the Germans should have a paratroop group I never understood why they didn't.

They have one but you must think that they landed before and have already infiltrated the card.

But... who are they?  ;D

Yep, Naval Infantries, already in "Ground" Uniform (not in "Black Navy uniform".

Laufer.fr wrote:
But... who are they?  ;D

Look what you found  :-X

Seamen yet did not suffice  ;D

From what I've seen everything needed for Naval Infantry is already there hehe... I don't think Eastern Front is even close to the finished product (in a good way).  ;)

Man I would like to see them in-game :D

Ahem...these were just WIP  ::)

A decent WIP though, despite the toothbrush tash and weird normals ;)

Another reason to add Navies:

2nd Doctrine, top unit is SuperSniper (Vasily Zaitcev from EatG), who's life and combat carrer is very les known by western people.

Actually, his rank was "Starshina 1 Class" (it is "Navy" variant of "Sergeant" in Infantry), and he was a origin Navy Infantry man from Pacific Ocean Fleet Navy Infantry. In autumn 1942 he was (together with several hundreds of other "Morpekhs") transferred to Stalingrad, and fought in 284sd (Strelkovaya Divisiya - "Rifle Division").

And originally, he must have NAVY uniform :)

Later, almost at the end of Stalingrad Battle, he was badly wounded by mortar mine explosion, blinded. Only in mid.1943 doctors could luckily heal his eyes.

Later he was a chief of Sniper school, later - Commander of Mortar Battery, and ended War as a Company Commander.

Last edited January 30, 2010 at 10:31 AM by Artillerist

Marine infantry would be awesome, only because they were used to defend Stalingrad, and they did their job succesfully.

In addition they look pretty nice, why not?

I think this is a good way to add variety to the soviet, so they shouldnt replace partisans, they should be "only" powerful infantry, useful to defend a position.

Also, i suggest: Naval infantry squad- 6 men

1 officer with ppsh
2 men with DP-28
4 men with SV-40

they have grenade abilities and they cost 350 or 400 MP.

What do you think?

From what is saw from youtube,many partisans used sniped rifle.

Is wrong to make partisan group with one female as a sniper,and the rest to stay how they are ?

Of course their cost must be around 450,but they will be a great unit with this improvement.

Last edited February 7, 2010 at 6:00 PM by PSIHOPAT