Hotchkiss tank V. T70

I was debating with my friend (AxisRock) about small tanks and I said that a Hotchkiss or two would be able to take on a Russian T70 (in the game) without any upgrades.
So my question is who would win? This must have happened atleast once or twice durring the beta if so and who won and do you have a video of it? And if not can you guys test it out?

Well, there is one slight problem. Completely different Tiers ;)
The Hotchkiss can obtain vet and a gun upgrade. The T70
can't. Vet, missiles, enhanced gun :)

For the T70's side, you don't need to pay an expensive
tank hall upgrade before you can even start to build it in
the first place :)

So T70 comes waaay earlier.

Ok. But for a face to face fight? Vanilla (default) for
Hotchkiss and (obviously default) for T70, then, yea,
I think it'd be pretty even...

But once Hotchkiss were completely upgraded... ;)
(vet3 + gun + missiles...)(I don't think they should
get both upgrades. It should be one OR the other) Meh.

Then T70 would get seriously raped ;)

OK sense the t70 comes first lets say the Hotchkiss didn't have enough time to upgrade and for some deranged reason the German General said "lets send this piece of shit up!" And it comes in contact with a T70 what will happen?

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I'm sorry It's just I am fond of smaller tanks :) some think its creapy but I just think they look nice and they complment infantry rather well (the hotchkiss is the ONLY reason I got TOV well maybe that kangroo had somthing to do with it aswell)

You should play Combat Mission : Berlin to Barbarossa with me ;) There's a very nice mission with pz38(t)+2x Stu3B vs
BT7's and a call-in T34/76. At night. In a snowstorm :D

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As for H35/H39 vs T70...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotchkiss_H35
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-70

H35 129km/28kph, 7.1Horsepower/ton, 37mm gun.
Armor : 40mm/34mm. Crew : 2. Built: 1200.
T70 350km/45kph, 15Horsepower/ton, 45mm gun.
Armor : 10mm (rear) to 60mm (front/turret). Crew : 2. B8226.

The faster one will decide terrain/angle. I'd say T70 would
win. Of course. A man with a wooden spoon could win in
a duel with a man with an M60, but... ;)

It's fairly close, though. It boils down to whoever gets
a lucky penetrating shot first. With vet and the gun upgrade
H39, though, odds don't look good for T70, but it could
still win.

It'd be a matter of skill.



The commander manned a standard APX-R turret, armoured with 40 mm cast steel and armed with the short 37 mm SA 18 gun, which had a maximum armour penetration of only 23 mm.
There was a hatch in the back of the turret. The commander could sit on it for better observation, but this made him very vulnerable and slow to reach the gun. The alternative was to fight buttoned-up, using the hatchless cupola. The Cavalry liked neither this arrangement nor the weak gun. The latter problem was lessened somewhat by boring out the fire chamber so that special rounds with a larger charge could be used. This increased muzzle velocity to about 600 m/s and maximum penetration to about 30 mm. Only a small part of the tanks with the Cavalry alone were thus changed however, because it strongly increased barrel wear. In the Spring of 1940 the original diascopes of the Chrétien type were gradually replaced with episcopes, offering more protection.

Commander was the one looking around, LOADING the gun,
aiming the gun, firing the gun... Crew of 2 is a bitch :)

Last edited December 8, 2009 at 6:46 AM by Loupblanc

yeah well just watch the first 12 seconds of this and you will get my point http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSe38dzJY

"no one expects the spanish inquisition!"

The URL contained a malformed video ID.
Either give me better link or tell me what to look out for?

Loupblanc wrote:

The URL contained a malformed video ID.
Either give me better link or tell me what to look out for?

Monty Python - Spanish Inquisition Torture Scene
"no body expects the spanish inquistion!" I'm saying that it could happen

Er, now I'm really confused ;)
What does spanish inquisition have to do with this whole
topic? ;)

Yeah Im kinda lost with that one.

Still, this forum could do with more Monty Python...

I like Monty Python a lot :)
Hey, Luz, go check up my suggestion thread! :D
On T34 call-ins :)

Loup, people will read your thread, you dont need to advertise  ;)

I wrote it a week ago and not a single person had commented
despite 57 reads or so :p

Quotepz38(t)

I remember seeing those in some Vid a while back, they sent tonnes of them to the Eastern Front. They built the Marder III on the same chassis... It would make some nice Ostheer light tank material, certainly better than the Panzer II ;)

Indeed it would.

It was pretty good for an early war tank, would be nice to see the Ostheer using them in the light tank role :)

Cheers

luz777 wrote:
Yeah Im kinda lost with that one.

Still, this forum could do with more Monty Python...

Ok it means like Loup said "it probably won't happen" well on Monty they said "no body expects the Spanish inquistion!" See what I mean?

Burrito :
  - Pz38(t) : Yea, that's got my vote ;) Although it was
obsolete by 1942... mmm... but it'd be nice yea :)
- Marder3 is built on Pz38(t) frame? Dude, you don't know
what you are talking about!! Actually, the

Marder III
The Marder III is the name for a series of World War II German tank destroyer s built on the chassis of the Panzer 38(t). German word " ...
10 KB (1,530 words) - 21:17, 4 December 2009

... Dum de dum de daaa...

- Luz777 : Yea, it's got my vote :)
Pz2 can be a reward unit :D

- Ford Prefect : Oooh so that's the link, allright.
I get it now :) No comments :)

Quote- Marder3 is built on Pz38(t) frame? Dude, you don't know
what you are talking about!! Actually, the

Marder III
The Marder III is the name for a series of World War II German tank destroyer s built on the chassis of the Panzer 38(t). German word " ...

lolwut? I'm not sure if what you're saying is satire or what, but its making no sense...

From Achtung Panzer -

QuoteThe Marder III was produced in two variants - Ausf H and Ausf M. They were based on the Panzerkampfwagen 38(t) Ausf H and Ausf M light tank chassis, respectively.

...

WHAT...................THE................HELL COME ON GUYS! Ahhhhhhh you say I go off topic a lot (which I do sometimes but the latest time I deleated my comments that were off topic) CAN I JUST GET AN ANSWER BURRO BEFORE THE THREAD IS COMPLETLY RECKED?

- HolyBurrito : I thought the Marder3 couldn't possibly be
built off the Pz38(t), then looked it up (to plaster you with
irrefutable proof and... ... well, dumdedudaaa... ;) (Runs to
hide under bed)

- If someone wants to play a BT7/T34/76(1940 turret)
vs Pz38(t) + 2x Stu3B in Combat Mission : Berlin to Barbarossa
with troops, in a snowstorm at night... ;) I'm all for it! :D

- As for Ford_Prefect : I answered your question! :D
I gave you awesome, best reply already! :D

: It's wrecked, not Recked, and I don't even speak the
language ! :D

Loupblanc wrote:

- HolyBurrito : I thought the Marder3 couldn't possibly be
built off the Pz38(t), then looked it up (to plaster you with
irrefutable proof and... ... well, dumdedudaaa... ;) (Runs to
hide under bed)

- If someone wants to play a BT7/T34/76(1940 turret)
vs Pz38(t) + 2x Stu3B in Combat Mission : Berlin to Barbarossa
with troops, in a snowstorm at night... ;) I'm all for it! :D

- As for Ford_Prefect : I answered your question! :D
I gave you awesome, best reply already! :D

: It's wrecked, not Recked, and I don't even speak the
language ! :D

yeah thats how pissed you got me I'm not even checking spell check any more
also to tell you the trouth I well don't care about what you THINK about it because you don't have the mod I am kind of pissed that burro decided to go on and on about what ever the hell you guys are talking about without even posting ONE LITTLE POST ABOUT THE SUBJECT AT HAND.

Last edited December 9, 2009 at 6:47 AM by ford_prefect

Ford I think you should get some insence sticks and have a good old calm down.

Also get some punctuation.  :P

Ford, whining about it isn't going to make matters any better... so shut up.

What you requested required some testing, so I went PE and got myself a bunch of Hotchkisses. Now, this isn't exactly what you asked for, but it puts the Hotchkiss in some perspective... for a shit French light tank, it packs quite a punch... these 3 made quick work of T-34's and even managed to take down an IS-2 -

3 Hotchkiss vs IS 2

The IS-2 in the Vid is at about 80% health and only 2 of the Hotchkisses have the long barrel upgrade.

It makes a difference from the Soviets pwning eh, when an IS-2 can be humilated like that ;)

Ford_Prefect : To tell you the trout? What? You talk to
fish now? :p Man, don't play with your food. That's just wrong.

- I don't need a spell checker ;)

Luz777 : I think he needs to get laid, actually :D

MostHolyBurro : Ooooh, man, we love you :)
But, actually, the question was 1 Hotchkiss vs 1x T70
... But I suppose this answers it...

Poor IS2... I thought it was supposed to be all-powerful
and invulnerable and could kill a KingTiger in a single blow!
That *IS* a 122mm... ;)

This was with AI, for some reason it prefers to build T-90's as opposed to T-70's. Gah, wish we could get the T-60 in instead of that god awful T-90.

Well the T90 is a pre-upgrade Puma thingie... so, perhaps?
Ahh, evil AI :) Get that super coder guy to fix it! Lol.

T60 would replace T70 not T90 ;) Different hull.
And get ZSU37 instead of T90 :) (I know, animating the
crew is the issue, sigh). Slap a tarp over them ;) (as per
T90)

BurroDiablo wrote:
Ford, whining about it isn't going to make matters any better... so shut up.

What you requested required some testing, so I went PE and got myself a bunch of Hotchkisses. Now, this isn't exactly what you asked for, but it puts the Hotchkiss in some perspective... for a shit French light tank, it packs quite a punch... these 3 made quick work of T-34's and even managed to take down an IS-2 -

*snip*video*snip*

The IS-2 in the Vid is at about 80% health and only 2 of the Hotchkisses have the long barrel upgrade.

It makes a difference from the Soviets pwning eh, when an IS-2 can be humilated like that ;)

The reason the IS-2 died was because he didnt hold still lol. He showed his rear armor and decreased his accuracy by moving around a lot. Still, that does show the IS-2 is the super tank it seems

Big long slow turret gun. Moving about and losing accuracy
showing his butt to those hotchkisses...
If it'd been a player, would have gone differently

But yea, it can be killed :D

The majority of the frontal shots penetrate however, so indeed, this is not the super OP Panther pwnerer that the majority seem to think.
If I was to put 3 T-70's up against a Panther, I can guarentee the Panther would survive with very little damage.

Hmm lets see here. IS-2 can best a panther 1v1 according to the guide. So IS-2 > Panther.  3x Hotchkiss > IS-2 and according to burro 3x t-70 < Panther. So that means IS-2 > 3x t-70 and therefore 3x Hotchkiss > 3x t-70. Divide by 3 and you get Hotchkiss > t-70. There ford_perfect, I figured it out for you.  ;D

I'm confused now :)
Hmm... ...

So who would win in a 3x hotchkiss vs 1x Panther fight?
I vote to remove the OP Panther from the game, then ! :D

Frontal shots penetrate? WTF :)

Why would a hotchkiss ever fight a panther (in-game)? Hmm, I did not know frontal shots penetrated with the hotchkiss, maybe the little bastard is worth having

Voop_Bakon wrote:
Why would a hotchkiss ever fight a panther (in-game)? Hmm, I did not know frontal shots penetrated with the hotchkiss, maybe the little bastard is worth having

yes I like the little thing any way thanks burro that some what puts it in order. If that was a hard pc I'm shocked well I think that if 3hotchkiss's (or however you say it ;D can take on a beast tank like that then I think that one can take on a t-70

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BurroDiablo wrote:
Ford, whining about it isn't going to make matters any better... so shut up.

What you requested required some testing, so I went PE and got myself a bunch of Hotchkisses. Now, this isn't exactly what you asked for, but it puts the Hotchkiss in some perspective... for a shit French light tank, it packs quite a punch... these 3 made quick work of T-34's and even managed to take down an IS-2 -

3 Hotchkiss vs IS 2

The IS-2 in the Vid is at about 80% health and only 2 of the Hotchkisses have the long barrel upgrade.

It makes a difference from the Soviets pwning eh, when an IS-2 can be humilated like that ;)

looking at that says that you guys have the mod working

Last edited December 9, 2009 at 11:53 PM by ford_prefect

I was joking, lol.
Yea, they'Re worth having! :D They're 6 pop, Stuart-level ;)
Weak armor, so, hopefully, they have SOMETHING to be
worth having, yes? :)