Need help with the ostheer.

I can't wrap my head around the ostheer and a solid tactic against soviets.  In my hands, the ostheer is underperforming in all stages of the battle, I am always having a hard time dealing with masses of Soviet infantry, AT guns, light tanks and lastly - cheep medium tanks.
My own PAK's are getting hammered by heavy mortars and/or arty - and that mortar is defended by all kinds of man eating and panzer bending machinery.  A solid steel wall more or less. If I could just mach the numbers I think it would be a smooth ride, but the truth is, I am constantly stretched out on my units, always in need of ekstra firepower,  tanks and fuel. The price on panzer seems to be so high that I can't really get a solid armoured section up and running - and they are always needed somewhere, so I can't sit back and wait to build a bunch and then roll them all out at once.
I am also very careful with my vehicles so I don't really take any chances. Most of the time, I have them placed behind the front and they are reduced to QRF,  and occasionally doing some hit and run in enemy territory .

It is really frustrating for me. Normally I can easily take on an AI on hard with all other armies and put up a fight in MP,  but with ostheer I may even lose out to a normal soviet AI. 

I don't know what I'm doing wrong, I think I have tried out every tactic I can possible imagine. I feel like the ostheer is missing something, something is wrong but I can't really place my finger on it.
Please share some wisdom with me, I need it.

Edit: oh, and I have tried out the fortress doctrine many times, mainly to get the mg and PAK emplacements,  but I can't put them to any use. I want defences to halt enemy advances, but I feel like the MG's angle of fire is too narrow, and the PAK can't put up with any thing other than jeeps and trucks.

Last edited February 8, 2015 at 8:16 AM by SchlagtSieTot

Spam goliath and snipers

@GeneralCH

It would be snipers only now since the goliath got removed :P.

@SchlagSieTot

The most stable and versatile build for OH is T1 start, get a couple of Landsers with support and then keep your map control in check for a quick T4. In T4, you'll have the excellent Stug III and your AT tank and other more specialised vehicles. It's the easiest build to fend off Soviets in general. You can then pick Elite Doctrine to cover the elite infantry part and play similarly to AMIs and Infantry Company Doctrine. It's easy and effective! There are other builds ofc, but this sounds more like the thing you need.

GeneralCH wrote:
Spam goliath and snipers

Its him.
The anomaly.
Do we proceed?
Yes... He is still... Only human.

Going for T4 right after T1 didn't really do that much. The cost to tech up (both the T1 and 4 upgrades) are pricey on fuel and so is the stug.  So I'm spending insane amounts of fuel on two stug's and the infantry upgrade, while the soviets spam away SU75 and T90 combo's.  There's so much funds bound up in the stug's that one dares not loose them, this could turn the whole game around for the worse.
I really don't know what to do.

The hard and expert AI get much more manpower income than you, thus have more units on the field. If you try to combat them with equal units you will lose the ressource war. So you need to get units, which drain the enemy ressources, but not yours. Those units are snipers, atguns, goliaths, mines, arty ...
Also the enemy will attack your structures like sandbags and wire. So you could confuse the AI and build defences forward. Its really not that hard...

spam jagers or panzer fusiliers with Anti infantry upgrades. these guys are extremely efficient for their low cost yet high dps

Take my word for it, go T1 to T3 instead. The Marder II is the best cost efficient AT in the game with an insane range and dps. Its only flaw is its penetration against heavy tanks (IS2s). Landser with mp40 is pretty good this patch so survive until you get the panzer fusilier or if you picked the best doc, the jagers. All you really need in AI games are the following, nothing else:

Mp40 landsers
G41 Panzerfusiliers OR Jagers with MKB42 upgrade
Marder II/Pak 40
1 Sniper (main use is to counter snipe enemy snipers, the panzer fusiliers/Jagers will do most of the infantry killing)

I was waiting for a thread like this. The Ostheer seems a bit complicated compared to PE or Wehr but maybe it's just me using it for the first time.

I was able to fight 3 expert soviet AIs ALONE as Ostheer on Red Ball Express with nothing but 2 sturm pios, 6 pak 40, 3 landsers, and 3 g41 panzerfusiliers. Plucking away at hundreds of soviet soldiers at base with the healing post, I quickly got most of my units to ace veterancy and they wrecked shit even though I was extremely out numbered. I survived for 2 hours of nonstop pressure and even at one point secured half the map until my computer randomly shut down the program due to updates  :(

Later on I got 8 jagers 4 with AI and the other 4 with AT upgrades. They were ace vet too

Last edited February 14, 2015 at 5:53 PM by Agent Thompson

Agent wrote:
I was able to fight 3 expert soviet AIs ALONE as Ostheer on Red Ball Express with nothing but 2 sturm pios, 6 pak 40, 3 landsers, and 3 g41 panzerfusiliers. Plucking away at hundreds of soviet soldiers at base with the healing post, I quickly got most of my units to ace veterancy and they wrecked shit even though I was extremely out numbered. I survived for 2 hours of nonstop pressure and even at one point secured half the map until my computer randomly shut down the program due to updates  :(

Later on I got 8 jagers 4 with AI and the other 4 with AT upgrades. They were ace vet too

AI is retarded. I secured my fuel at Semois as Ostheer (I was playing from the left) and they didn't know how to capture it so kept sending units who just stood there, like 3 tanks and 3 infantry squads staring at the fuel point. Eventually they figured out how to capture it and went for it and destroyed my base afterwards. AI left all his units in my base and I capped the map and won, gg.

In my experience the easy AIs tend to do that (But you can still signal for cap, def, and attack which DO work well)
Expert AI moves automatically around the map.

Or there may be a problem with some maps. Some EF maps have problems with its AIs

It was expert AI on Semois (I don't remember if EF version or vanilla).

OH: (The get either assault or support whatever floats your boat guide)

1. Get another sturmpio. Get these guys the flamer
2. Use the two sturmpios given to get T1.
3. Cap with all three sturmpios while T1 builds the ff.
3. 2 Landsers, a Sniper and wait a bit to get the sarge upgrade. Get MP40 for Landsers.
3.5 Medic hut.
4. Save up for T3 get fusiliers. A pzIII/marder afterwards.
5. squad up armor with infantry. pzIII with flamer eats allied soldiers at this stage since they won't have proper ATs YET.
6. If you're using elite tree. Get Jagers with MKBs.
7. Save up for T4. Get Tiger.
8. Own.

Might work for you :)

Su gets T90 and SU76 combo's out faster then one can accumulate enough fuel for the T3. The Sargent upgrade is also very expensive in fuel, and also the other upgrade in T3 that is needed to access PAK / Marder. 

All in all, I still feel the OST is underpowered or imbalanced.  But that's just my opinion,  and I choose not to play with them, simply because they don't match my style.

ChernoAlpha wrote:
OH: (The get either assault or support whatever floats your boat guide)

1. Get another sturmpio. Get these guys the flamer
2. Use the two sturmpios given to get T1.
3. Cap with all three sturmpios while T1 builds the ff.
3. 2 Landsers, a Sniper and wait a bit to get the sarge upgrade. Get MP40 for Landsers.
3.5 Medic hut.
4. Save up for T3 get fusiliers. A pzIII/marder afterwards.
5. squad up armor with infantry. pzIII with flamer eats allied soldiers at this stage since they won't have proper ATs YET.
6. If you're using elite tree. Get Jagers with MKBs.
7. Save up for T4. Get Tiger.
8. Own.

Might work for you :)

You will have no map control with only 2 landsers. To fight the soviet spam I make 4 Landsers with mp40 upgrades so I can at least stand a chance.

I've been played this mod a few weeks and i love it! But there is a prolem, where is the ostheer King Tiger (or Tiger II) ? I can't find it anywhere .

Unless I'm mistaken, Ostheer cannot field King Tigers.

Yup, King Tiger is only fieldable by Wehrmacht at the moment.