Basic COH fracions new doctrines.

Hello. I heard that you gonna add new doctrines for Soviet and Ostheer in reward menu. How about doing same with USA, British, WErmaht and PE? That would add something freash in game, also it will be more fair to fight USA vs Ostheer for example. We could give Marines doctrine for USA. It could add marines infantry, x6 guys with tomphsons, sprint, incendiary granades and sticky, also they would have huge amout of HP. Also some doc specials like "Battleship strike" where you fire 6 300mm rounds on area. Calling neaval figters can be soemthing new like F4U with x4 20mm guns. Technicly you could use this doc in coast maps, but who cares, lets send them to fight in Stalingrad ^^ and don't care about details so much. Thinks of perspectives. You can for example re-add your royal marines for british.

Sorry if i reposted this topic agein, but i am kinda new here.

I think it would actually be pretty cool! However, I don't really see the point as this is about the Eastern Front mostly and priority goes to EF factions and the campaign. I doubt we will ever see such a thing. But after every priority would be done, I would love to see some additional love for the Vanilla factions. Don't see the point to keep Vanilla factions in otherwise, really lol.

I myself like the idea of this, if the other devs dont mind I probably will go ahead and do this if the other devs dont have the time

I like this idea too as sometimes it is quite a headache to choose from the doctrines and looking for something special too.

@Robotnik

It would be awesome if you could! We could then see stuff like Marines for US and Marines for Brits again.

Ok... I see that you like my idea. It is my USA marines tree that i made up.

Left line of the tree.

Marines (2)
call off map marines. x6 with thompsons. Granades, sticky and something new; ability i called "duck" When you click "duck" your guys have to be in cover, yellow or green. They will stop moveing, still shoot and recive huge cover bonus and it is much harder to kill them with rifles, mgs, and machine guns. It do not works on everything that explodes. Duck can be turned off anytime and marines will instantly move normaly and recive damage normaly.

LVT(A)-4 (1) [http://www.hsgalleries.com/gallery04/images/lvta4mb_3.jpg]
Technicly it is swiming stuard with short 75mm hotwizer. Fires High Explosive rounds at enemy. Very effective to breach defense and fight huge amouts of infantry. It is cheap, fast and with lack of armor. Can be very effective in hit and run startegy.
Improvment:
Roof .50 gunner.
Ability:
Fire HEAT at enemy tank, pircing it armor and making some damage.

Re-supply from the sea (4)
You can change 110 ammo to 50 fuel or 55 fuel on 100 ammo.

Right line of the tree

Battleship radar. (2)
Reveal enemy units on minimap. Shows only type of unit (vehicle, building or infantry) and lasts only for few seconds.

Battleship artillery (2)
Fires x6 300m on pointed area. Area must be revealed, makes red smoke.

Battleship rockets strike (3)
Fires x3 calipto barrage on huge revealed area. Makes yellow smoke in center of area.

Doctrine can be very effective in breaching defensives made by bunker-noobs, killing huge amounts of infantry. It can have problems with tanks (no rocket infantry).

Last edited November 30, 2013 at 1:43 PM by Yappir

I like the idea of new doctrines as a reward, though I just want to sharpen the question because I think you are getting at my point here. What makes this doctrine unique compared to others? I feel like the doctrine is an off-map support doctrine with just another squad of elite infantry. When they are a 6 man squad all armed with tommyguns with huge health, i feel is a more powerful AI version of the Rangers w/ out zooks ofcourse.

Infantry doctrine is already sufficient in killing defenses. Off-onmap arty and ranger bazookas are sufficient.

You are right it is very similar but it is not finnaly version of this doctrine it is only my sugestion. What i want to keep for sure is marines, amfibius tank and battleship barrage. this 300mm would be difrent then normal strike it is only few strong rounds that will impact in one moment. It is similar artylery but it is not completyly the same.

And how do you propose to balance 6 x 300mm shots Mr. balancer?

Tbh im nit realy a fan of this reward doc. Next to the fact that we are the ef team i think our focus should stay at the eastern front. But even if we would decide to create the reward docs for vanilla, i don't like this marine doc that much.

I'm not opposed to new doctrines but I'm totally agree with ApeMen. Improvement  EF should be the priority.

With regards

Yappir wrote:
You are right it is very similar but it is not finnaly version of this doctrine it is only my sugestion. What i want to keep for sure is marines, amfibius tank and battleship barrage. this 300mm would be difrent then normal strike it is only few strong rounds that will impact in one moment. It is similar artylery but it is not completyly the same.

I think you overlooked the strength of the marine units. They generally are not better in combat than the already bad ass Rangers and were just like any other US Army grunt with a bit more experience.

There is some serious disjunct in what I'm reading and what needs to be worked on.

If there is a way that Eastern Front can be put onto the new CoH 1 Beta then this is essentially one of Eastern Front's last chances to make a community recovery. I am saddened to see the community not nearly as active as it once was. When my break hits I will see about doing broadcasting.

The Eastern Front mod was designed to act like a stand-alone expansion pack to the original Company of Heroes series and add the Russian and Ostheer factions. Adding new doctrines to the existing factions will not only complicate matters by having players having to relearn factions that they already know but also takes away from the effectual goal of the mod, to provide neat, balanced, new content in the form of new factions and other additionals, such as the coming campaign.

Though I am aware of overhauls in the OH faction ongoing, there is needed fine tweaking in all aspects. Now is not the time to be slamming more content in the existing factions (not to mention you need to devote artistic resources into this). With limited manpower resources the focus needs to be on the fine tune of the OH and Soviet gameplay.

I won't post my opinion on the suggestion as I think that the entire idea of adding new doctrines to the existing factions when the balance of the already added content isn't stable is wasteful of resources.

Call my name and I am here to serve the team once more.

Its basically what cranial said. Focus should be for now balance and fine-tuning. After this the first 2 reward docs (one for ostheer and one for soviets).

btw cranial
nice to see you back in action :P

I can probably work on a few reward doctrines for vanilla factions in my spare time, so dont worry about it slowing balance or other things :)

of course, I have to focus on what we are doing now first

You got this wrong robo. Adding The vanilla reward docs will slow down The Balance progress. The reason is simple. We have to test and balance the new units and abilities, because they will always effect the current gameplay and balance. Tbh i don't want to see something like RMC again

ApeMen wrote:
You got this wrong robo. Adding The vanilla reward docs will slow down The Balance progress. The reason is simple. We have to test and balance the new units and abilities, because they will always effect the current gameplay and balance. Tbh i don't want to see something like RMC again

I share Ape's and Cranials opinion on this matter. Vanilla factions already receive useful stuff from their reward units. Adding reward doctrines on top is too much to handle.

I would still consider even only 1 reward doctrine better than reward units. Also the US has only 1 reward unit while the panzer elite has 3, so the US is also kinda lacking in reward content in comparison to the other factions

Yes I wouldnt want to see a repeat of the RMC either, but 1 reward doctrine would be much easier to balance than a reward faction or 3 reward doctrines, while offering more content than a reward unit

I never said that it should be new pioriety but what when EF will be 100% complited? I do not force you to do anything or do it as i said. We can just sit here and speculate what if?
About marines, you are right about x6 tommy it would be OP how about x3 tommy and x3 M1? Or we could just cheat and make they tommys weaker then rangers. Marines don't know how to shoot with rusty guns :D About balancing x6 300mm. smoke + 2-3 seconds first round  then rest after like 1/4 second each.

One more thing. It is a bad idea but how about giving to PE a "Karl Gerät 040". It was a mortar. Trick was that it was 600mm and fired 2t rounds on 10km. There was also version with 540mm gun that fired 1.2 ton. Germans wanted to improve reload speed by making rounds smaller. They build 6 of them +1 prototype. Used mostly on eastern front.

http://www.info-pc.home.pl/whatfor/baza/panzer6/karl_1.jpg
http://img.sadistic.pl/pics/ea8f75ab386a.jpg
http://www.mojehobby.pl/zdjecia/2/5/2/187_rn.jpg

and Polish saper finding a 2t round. http://www.rzeczpospolita.pl/teksty/warszawa_070609/warszawa_a_3-1.F.jpg

Ofc it must me off map. But then it will be same as V1. IF you want to use it we should make it that way.
PE comander call an area barrage (must do it on own or neutral terrytory. On huge area (realy huge) karls starts to droping round in totaly random spots. few round (4?) in huge time peroid. Evry shot is warned by a sound of karl fireing. You have to drop it on own/neutral sector so sneaky snipers will not spam it on enmy side of map.

But even i think this idea is kinda crazy. 2t or 1.2t of explosives from sky it is huge amout of explosives. I will not be surprised if you reject this monster. here is explosion a 1000kg of ANFO so you can see how big it is. http://youtu.be/saU3ftuG7CQ?t=47s

Last edited December 4, 2013 at 6:22 PM by Yappir

Marines assaulting to Demyansk, Battleships on Volga pounding Stalingrad, swimming Stuarts. hmmm. Why not Submarines then? Awesome ideas. It will definitely add so much to this mod and Russian theater. Nice touch.

I have some suggestions too; we can have reward Doctrine for Ost, "Zeppelin Rage" doctrine. War Zeppelins swarming skies, while Hans Joachim Marseille Stafing Run supressing the Russian War Bears, Gunther Prien can sink those Battleships on Volga with ease before Soviets charging under Gen. Zhukov ( replacing CS unit, he rides a White horse ) for a final effort. I think this will also help EF Mod.

When you finish EF balancing, please add those too. I have so many ideas you'll be insanely exited.

Last edited December 4, 2013 at 6:34 PM by Riggsman

Please keep in mind that we cant add a on-map-object like the Karl-Gerät or stuff like this.
So such a suggestion will be a stupid and boring "artillery off map barrage"... so keep this in mind
when u think about "new stuff"  ;)
And all in all i think we should focus on EF content and not on CoH vanilla content.

It was ironic comment

lol

Riggsman wrote:
Marines assaulting to Demyansk, Battleships on Volga pounding Stalingrad, swimming Stuarts. hmmm. Why not Submarines then? Awesome ideas. It will definitely add so much to this mod and Russian theater. Nice touch.

I have some suggestions too; we can have reward Doctrine for Ost, "Zeppelin Rage" doctrine. War Zeppelins swarming skies, while Hans Joachim Marseille Stafing Run supressing the Russian War Bears, Gunther Prien can sink those Battleships on Volga with ease before Soviets charging under Gen. Zhukov ( replacing CS unit, he rides a White horse ) for a final effort. I think this will also help EF Mod.

When you finish EF balancing, please add those too. I have so many ideas you'll be insanely exited.

You made my day man.  You're quite a comedian.

But your last assertion is so true. After this mod will be perfect balanced, hosted a couple of tournaments and we'll be bored of it we can turn to these extra doctrines.

How about something like passive think for 1 point; "Staying low". Infantry is harder to be pined or stunded.

Yappir wrote:
How about something like passive think for 1 point; "Staying low". Infantry is harder to be pined or stunded.

I still hope you're kidding around here.

Yappir wrote:
How about something like passive think for 1 point; "Staying low". Infantry is harder to be pined or stunded.

??? ??? ???That contradicts what the ability is supposed to do. Well if infantry are staying low more often shouldn't that mean they get surpressed easier?

I done some reading about USA marines to get some knowlege.
I found out some intresting informations.  As you guys know USA marines are specialisated in attacks from sea. Thats only one of they funcion. On land USA marines were (and still are) use as motorised infantry. Lets forget about ships and stuffs like that and focus on motorised infantry funcion. Also i read that marines and land troops were rivals. They were trying to impress each other. We can made ablility similar to Panzercrieg. Marines could buff riflemans and riflemans would buff marines.

Also USA made special sub for marines. They made like 10k (?) of it.  It would be perfect replacement for OP tommy. You can read in wikipedia that it had poor combat performence. It is similar to tommy (same bullets for example) but it is weaker so it will be perfect replacement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M50_Reising

I did not found any cool vehicels for marines yet. It should be amhibius so it is related to marines and sea. I think this swiming M5 would be great.

When I think of Marines the only thing that pops into my head are Rangers with Thompson smg upgrade XD

I agreed with everybody that balance should be fixed first. When thats done why dont you take all the reward units we have at the moment and make these into Doctrine based?