Substandard Soviet Doctrine Trees

On the whole I am very pleased with this mod, and aside from Soviet vehicle models and a few animations associated with them I think it's over all very high quality. However, I cannot shake the feeling that the Soviet's doctrine trees are substandard. Many of the doctrine abilities are rather uninspired; I understand that the trees have undergone many changes over the years for the sake of balance, but this particular aspect of the mod is a rather weak point. I am not being very constructive because I have no ideas of my own, however, I feel that the Soviets would be a more enjoyable faction if their doctrines had a more unique flavour than they currently do. For example, each doctrine tree has several call-ins; that in itself is not a problem, as some of these units are rather distinctive and unique, but the fact that call-ins constitute 33% of the doctrine abilities in each of the trees highlights that there is not much variety in terms of the doctrine trees.

I understand that the team is pre-occupied with developing a campaign, but perhaps they could consider the possibility of giving more appeal and flavour to the Soviet's doctrine trees by making more unique abilities. God of War and Red Tide are great, but their like in uniqueness is rare in the Soviet doctrine trees.

Let's see... call-ins in bold text

Propaganda: Not one step back, Naval Infantry, Red Tide, Katuysha, obr.1927+firebase unlock, God of War, Katyusha and the lone Commissar as "special" guest.

Urban: For the Mortherland, Partisans, Sniper Ace, KV-2, Smoke Barrage and Double Flamer.

Breakthrough: Inspiring Speech, Air Raid, KV-1, Mechanics, Armoured Spearhead(formerly Tank Riders) and ISU-152.

I see there are 3 call-ins per command tree, it is consistent IMO and it would represent the 50% :-S. So, would you remove one call-in to add a timed/toggled/passive ability? Would like if we remove Partisans or ISU-152 to add some good ability? I don't think players would like the idea.

I think the trees are fine as it, and if you don't like them, you can wait for the reward trees to be released so you can swap your less favorite "combo". Or you wait until we(or someone else ???) think of a better idea ;).

Quote[...] unique abilities [...]

You were talking about unique abilities. Well as we don't have access to the source code of the main game, we are not able to actually be that creative when it comes to abilities. Most of our abilities are more or less simple adapted copies of already existing ones from Relic. However keep suggesting things cause sometimes we are able to achieve a certain goal with work arounds.

QuoteI see there are 3 call-ins per command tree, it is consistent IMO and it would represent the 50% :-S

My apologies. I must have been very tired when I wrote that and I had definitely forgotten about the lone commissar.

QuoteYou were talking about unique abilities. Well as we don't have access to the source code of the main game, we are not able to actually be that creative when it comes to abilities.

Ah, I see. Well, that explains the state of the doctrine trees.

I am not sure about the potential in-game quality of this idea, but would it be possible to make a doctrine talent that is a reverse of Group Zeal? I mean this in the sense that infantry could receive some slight benefits if they are distant from other allied infantry, but this would only function within a limited area, so it would not be a global affect. This certainly sounds strange on a logical level, but on a practical level it encourages flanking and discourages blobbing, and so it has a potential purpose.

Magyar wrote:

QuoteI see there are 3 call-ins per command tree, it is consistent IMO and it would represent the 50% :-S

My apologies. I must have been very tired when I wrote that and I had definitely forgotten about the lone commissar.

QuoteYou were talking about unique abilities. Well as we don't have access to the source code of the main game, we are not able to actually be that creative when it comes to abilities.

Ah, I see. Well, that explains the state of the doctrine trees.

I am not sure about the potential in-game quality of this idea, but would it be possible to make a doctrine talent that is a reverse of Group Zeal? I mean this in the sense that infantry could receive some slight benefits if they are distant from other allied infantry, but this would only function within a limited area, so it would not be a global affect. This certainly sounds strange on a logical level, but on a practical level it encourages flanking and discourages blobbing, and so it has a potential purpose.

I guess it could be possible to make, let's say to make it work only in a sector selected by the player.

Keep in mind that vanilla coh doctrines use a high number of call-ins too.

Last edited October 17, 2013 at 4:12 PM by Lord Rommel

QuoteI guess it could be possible to make, let's say to make it work only in a sector selected by the player.

Mhm. Of course, that's more of a random idea I threw out there- I certainly am not suggesting that it need be added.

QuoteKeep in mind that vanilla cih doctrines use a high number of call-ins too.

Yes, that's true, there are a few that are like that, but each doctrine has its own unique flavour that makes it stand out, which is rather what I feel the Soviets are lacking. However, I understand now that achieving that quality and uniqueness with the Soviets is difficult because of the lack of access to the game's source code.